Can a JW be a Christian.

[Apple7]

The name of Jesus Father is not the same name as Jesus.

LA

Father, Son & Spirit have the same ONE Name...

Mat 28.19

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος

Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


This passage contains arthrous substantives connected via kai which indicates distinction and separate referents.

However, while distinction is made between the referents, each has the same singular name.

Three Persons in one Being.

This same singular name of three persons’ baptism is the same as the Aaronic blessing in which the singular name of Yahweh is repeated three times (Num 6.22 – 27).

Separate and yet the same, The Trinity.

 

[steko]

The Christ.

LA

Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed[mashiyach/messiah/LXX-Christos], to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him

If that is the name above every other name then why did YHVH give it to the Persian King Cyrus?

 

[beameup]

The Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is that Jesus died for the sin of Adam. However, this makes no sense since they also believe that Jesus was the Archangel Michael. So, their illogical "doctrine" has an angel dying for one man, Adam.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 Jn 2:2 || Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 1 Jn 4:10

 

[keypurr]

really? -whose definition?
-believing Jesus is God is important
-but is it more important than believing your free will will determine your salvation?
-I don't think so
-is it more important that believing what you do will determine your salvation?
-I don't think so
-nontrinitarian posters here at tol are closer to what Jesus taught than many so called christians

Friend you have great love for God and man. So many foolish posters in this thread. Who is any one of this thread qualified to judge the JWs? Friend your mind is open and you just accept folks as they are. God bless you.

 

[keypurr]

I deny any triune God, because it's not biblical. You tell me where God the son is in the Bible, even just once? God wouldn't miss something so important out.

There's no three Gods, there is only one God, the Almighty God the father. And he's the God of Jesus Christ also. As Jesus said himself.

John 20:17

I go to my father and your father, to my God and your God

They do not wish to see the truth. I stand with you that only the Father is God.

 

[keypurr]

Dead.

Wrong.

Your clueless Apple7.

 

[keypurr]

You just quoted more scripture in support of The Trinity.

The Triune God raised Jesus from the dead....which has the same singular NAME...

Thanks!

You got that from your Apple7 Greek.

 

[keypurr]

The Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is that Jesus died for the sin of Adam. However, this makes no sense since they also believe that Jesus was the Archangel Michael. So, their illogical "doctrine" has an angel dying for one man, Adam.

There is no perfect church or religion, they are all cults. The RCC is the Mother of Harlots, guess who are the Harlots.

 

[beameup]

There is no perfect church or religion, they are all cults. The RCC is the Mother of Harlots, guess who are the Harlots.

Then the JW's would be the "only true church" because, first and foremost, they are ANTI-Catholic (and her "harlots", as you say).

Who is Jesus? That is the question.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Isaiah 45:23
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord kyrios, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11

This is not a "curtsey" as the JW's claim, this is full-on WORSHIP

 

[steko]

Then the JW's would be the "only true church" because, first and foremost, they are ANTI-Catholic (and her "harlots", as you say).

Who is Jesus? That is the question.

This is not a "curtsey" as the JW's claim, this is full-on WORSHIP

:thumb: Amen!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Dispensationalists demand that 1Corinthians 15:1-4 is the Gospel of Grace (and it is); but then go on to include many other things that must be required beyond that passage while insisting others are promoting another Gospel if they include any of those same things.

1Corinthians 15:1-4 says nothing of the Trinity or the Deity of Christ (necessary for salvation, according to most any Christian confession) or of affirming or denying other such related things.

Some Dispies have insisted that to require ANY additional knowledge is some form of Gnosticism; and if that is required, then it's not the simple Gospel of 1Corinthians 15:1-4 (which, of course, they then go on to say includes other knowledge of other things, and from other passages; but then it's not just about that passage).

So... If a JW or LDS or SDA or any other individual affirms the Gospel is 1Corinthians 15:1-4, then are they authentic Christians?

Can someone be ignorant and still a Christian? Can they be confused and very wrong? Can they be adamant about Christ not being divine? Can they actively oppose the Trinity in every possible form or explanation? Can they deny the virginity of Mary? Can they affirm Joseph as the biological father of Jesus as a man who is not also divine?

What knowledge or affirmation, right or wrong or confused or adamant, is necessary for salvation or is insufficient unto salvation?

Where is the threshhold? Where is the "line"? What is the minimum criteria?

Dispensationalists insist upon 1Corinthians 15:1-4 and nothing else. Yet they then require a number of other things as the criteria. I find this to be a monumental double standard, and rightly so.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Where is the threshhold? Where is the "line"? What is the minimum criteria?

Something along these lines works for me:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...here-Between&p=4594795&viewfull=1#post4594795

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

The Christ.

LA

What do you think Christ means?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I deny any triune God, because it's not biblical. You tell me where God the son is in the Bible, even just once? God wouldn't miss something so important out.

There are plenty of threads, too many in fact, discussing the matter of the Triune Godhead. Not going to start yet another one. Indeed God did not miss the important things, for it was God affirming His claim to divinity that was well understood by those taking up rocks to stone Him for His own perspicuous claim.

God spends quite a bit of time on the matter, too. For example, some O.T./N.T. cross-references:

1. Isaiah 40:3 with John 1:23 & 3:28
2. Isaiah 45:23 with Philippians 2:10,11 and Romans 14:11
3. Isaiah 44:24 with John 1:3
4. Isaiah 6:1-5 with John 12:37-41
5. Isaiah 8:13,14 with I Peter 2:7,8
6. Isaiah 42:8 with John 17:5
7. Isaiah 60:19 with Luke 2:30-32
8. Psalms 102:24-27 with Hebrews 1:10-12
9. Psalms 45:6,7 with Hebrews 1:8,9
10. Psalms 23:1 with Isaiah 40:10,11 and John 10,11
11. I Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23
12. Joel 2:32 with Romans 10:9-13
13. Exodus 3:14 with John 8:58,59
14. Malachi 3:1 with Matthew 11:10
15. Exodus 19:18-21 with Hebrews 12:18-26
16. Zechariah 12:10 & 13:6,7 with John 19:34-37
17. Zechariah 14:4,5 with Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31; Jude 14,15; II Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 19:11-21

Better for you to take up and read some solid treatments on the topic:

https://www.amazon.com/What-Trinity-Crucial-Questions-Book-ebook/dp/B00AW02OZW

http://scriptoriumdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Warfield-Trinity-Study-Edition.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Quest-Trinity-Doctrine-Scripture-Modernity-ebook/dp/B00ASKDDDI

http://sgbcphx.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TrinityHistoricalDevelopment.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Trinitarian-Faith-Evangelical-Theology-Catholic/dp/0567292193

https://www.monergism.com/dogmatic-theology-vol-1-w-g-t-shedd

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?97148-One-on-One-AMR-and-God-s-Truth-—-The-Holy-Trinity

AMR

 

[marhig]

There are plenty of threads, too many in fact, discussing the matter of the Triune Godhead. Not going to start yet another one. Indeed God did not miss the important things, for it was God affirming His claim to divinity that was well understood by those taking up rocks to stone Him for His own perspicuous claim.

God spends quite a bit of time on the matter, too. For example, some O.T./N.T. Cross-References:

1. Isaiah 40:3 with John 1:23 & 3:28
2. Isaiah 45:23 with Philippians 2:10,11 and Romans 14:11
3. Isaiah 44:24 with John 1:3
4. Isaiah 6:1-5 with John 12:37-41
5. Isaiah 8:13,14 with I Peter 2:7,8
6. Isaiah 42:8 with John 17:5
7. Isaiah 60:19 with Luke 2:30-32
8. Psalms 102:24-27 with Hebrews 1:10-12
9. Psalms 45:6,7 with Hebrews 1:8,9
10. Psalms 23:1 with Isaiah 40:10,11 and John 10,11
11. I Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23
12. Joel 2:32 with Romans 10:9-13
13. Exodus 3:14 with John 8:58,59
14. Malachi 3:1 with Matthew 11:10
15. Exodus 19:18-21 with Hebrews 12:18-26
16. Zechariah 12:10 & 13:6,7 with John 19:34-37
17. Zechariah 14:4,5 with Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31; Jude 14,15; II Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 19:11-21

Better for you to take up and read some solid treatments on the topic:

https://www.amazon.com/What-Trinity-Crucial-Questions-Book-ebook/dp/B00AW02OZW

http://scriptoriumdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Warfield-Trinity-Study-Edition.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Quest-Trinity-Doctrine-Scripture-Modernity-ebook/dp/B00ASKDDDI

http://sgbcphx.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TrinityHistoricalDevelopment.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Trinitarian-Faith-Evangelical-Theology-Catholic/dp/0567292193

https://www.monergism.com/dogmatic-theology-vol-1-w-g-t-shedd

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?97148-One-on-One-AMR-and-God-s-Truth-—-The-Holy-Trinity

AMR

I will read the verses you have shown. But, where I see it different to others is that they see Jesus as actually being God, I see him as full of Gods holy spirit and in Gods express image, so much so that he brought the living God to us. He was Emmanuel, God with us. But he's not God. He himself makes this quite clear when he refers God as his father and his God. And said that without the father he could do nothing. Why would he say that? If he was God, why would he rely on the father so much for everything? He needed God always.

Jesus says this

John 8

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Jesus always did the things that please God, so God never leaves him alone. That makes God the God of Jesus also.

Jesus was so full of the spirit of God because he completely and utterly denied the flesh and Satan, never sinning once, So God blessed him with the fullness of his spirit and he was the brightest shining light that they're ever was he is the only way, pure and sin free. Sin brings death, and the more we sin. The further we are from God but through Christ the spirit puts sin to death in our hearts daily so that the spirit of God can live. And he is changing us from a men and women of the flesh into temples of the living God, not built by the hand of man but by the spirit of God, and he will be our God as we will be his people and we will have a heart that he and Christ will make their abode in.

John 14

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

The word is not his, but the father's that sent him, Jesus words not mine!

Below in mark 3 Jesus refers to those who do the will of God as his brother, sister and mother. Thus he is not God, but he is abiding by the will of God also. And those who follow him become his church and his brothers and sisters because they too do the will of God. But he is the highest in heaven, he's at Gods right hand, because he denied Satan completely as he overcame Satan and the world and through him, we can overcome too!

Mark 3

For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


Jesus called his deciples his brethren not his sons thus making him and them all sons of God. The difference with Jesus is the he never sinned. We are sinners through and through but Christ within gives us the strength overcome sin.

There is only one Almighty God, and that's God the father and he said

Matthew 3

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

[beameup]

when he [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [prōtotokos] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6
unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

God was "tabernacled" in human flesh. The incarnation seems to be hard to "grasp" for some.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Jehovah's Witnesses are Arian Christians, yes? As in they don't believe Jesus is God, right? I'm not trying to "stir the pot", but does one have to believe that Jesus and God are the same Entity to be considered a Christian? My ex wife's church preached such a doctrine.

We have a plethora of them (Jehovah's Witnesses) in Arizona, and while they can be kind of annoying (knocking on my door on Saturday mornings so often that even my daughters roll their eyes), I've found them to be very nice and genuine people.

When I lived in an apartment shortly after my divorce, I used to find "Watchtower" magazines in the laundry room.

No we are not 'Arians'. We don't believe in the Trinity or Triune Gods A)Because it is entirely unscriptural and B)because its pagan in origin. We are followers of Christ. Therefore we are Christians.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Do JW's believe that Jesus of Nazareth literally rose bodily from the dead or do they believe that His body that died on the cross was replaced with a different body?

We believe what the Bible says on the matter. Jesus died on a stake, was buried, and was resurrected by God. After his last 40 days on Earth he ascended into Heaven as a 'spirit'. God, and his entire heavenly organisation are spirits. Jesus was a spirit before he came to Earth and is a spirit again now that his gone back to Heaven where ony spirits dwell.

We do NOT believe Jesus body was replaced with a different Body. I've never heard of that and im not sure where you got that viewpoint from.

Do JW's believe that Christ demonstrated victory over death by the continuing life of His physical body in His ascension, having physical life forever more, or do they believe that His earthly body disintegrated and was replaced with a former body of an angel?

Jesus demonstrated his 'victory' over death when on Earth. He raised the dead on numerous occasions. He himself also being raised on the 3rd day after death. Revelation tells us that Jesus has the key to Hades/Sheol, the common grave of mankind, and will raise the dead back to life on the 'Last Day'. Jesus is now an immortal spirit living in heaven with his father Jehovah.
We most certainly do not believe your lata statement which is unscriptural. Put simply if its not in the Bible we don't believe it.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Jehovah's Witnesses are almost universally seen as a cult. Most protestant churches have some form of pamphlet or direct teaching that warns against them as well as Mormons.

As for the question 'can a JW be a Christian?'- well, it's a bit of a loaded one. It depends on how one is defining 'Christian'. In any orthodox sense? Definitely not.

I suggest you look up the defintion of a cult as we most certainly do not fit the description of a cult, unless of course your derisory claim is being used in the usual perjorative sense.

Plus with well over 8 million baptized publishers and the fastest growing religion in the world that's some cult aye.....

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Jehovah's Witnesses

-do not hold to the Trinity, or otherwise that Christ is God
-they believe there is no Hell
-they believe in dualism ~ouch~

They have had a share of absurd false prophets and have proposed Jesus' return in 1914 within an inner chamber of a pyramid. To save face, they switched their doctrines and interpretations up to account for these deceptions.

These are the reasons why they aren't accepted in the Christian ranks- they virtually swim in heresy, and to a point where they don't even try to put up much defense. Rather, they just act like martyrs.
It's painfully obvious and orthodox, traditional Christians should come to terms with it- it's incontrovertible.

The moment you start giving these type of people confidence, you open up a floodgate of insanity.

Your grasp on what we believe is very poor.

Correct we do not believe in the Trinity.
There is a hell. Its the common grave. We do not believe in the fiery pagan hell of 'Christendom'. I've never heard of dualism, would you care to explain...

We believe Christ was established as King in Heaven in 1914 as per Bible prophecy in Daniel. The rest of your post regarding false prophets (we have no prophets and never have), inner chambers, Pyramids is complete nonsense.