God's Truth
New member
That is what Satan has you say.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
That is what Satan has you say.
God's Truth
New member
Yikes. This is for Steko and you:
Revelation 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
You both are in for a lot of trouble.
In case you dismiss what Jesus says and only want to go by Paul:
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
Did you read that? Sounds like one has to repent of sins.
God's Truth
New member
I fear for Steko and you.
What say you about this:
Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
God's Truth
New member
Did Steko and you hear that?
Paul says WORK, and that you can RECEIVE A REWARD as payment.
You too are in big trouble for saying those horrible things about the Truth.
Paul says WORK, and that you can RECEIVE A REWARD as payment.
You too are in big trouble for saying those horrible things about the Truth.
God's Truth
New member
Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart,you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
There are two kinds of works.
1. Works that are done to earn favor with God. These are religious works that are done in the flesh. God does not accept these works. He only accepts the works that were done by Jesus Christ. Works that were done in our name and on our behalf for our justification.
2. Works that are done out of gratitude for what Christ has done for us. These works are works that are motivated by the Holy Spirit and are pleasing to God.
God's Truth
New member
It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus. There is not a wrong way verses a right way to obey Jesus. There is not a wrong time verses a right time to obey Jesus.
Shasta
Well-known member
People are lost until such time as they are saved. Do you disagree with that?
God's Truth
New member
Shasta, look at the post you gave Robert Pate a thanks for...no thanks for me defending obedience? Not that I am looking for your approval, but I did hope more for you.
Shasta
Well-known member
This post seems to represent a move towards defining "works" not as the Calvinists do, as works of a Law but things you do for Christ, that is, as acts of obedience. I was attempting to encourage that movement. That aside, I suspect he holds antinomian doctrines like many I talk to regularly, like my own mother, as a matter of fact who is an ordained minister. Since I have never discussed the issue with Robert I will not venture to say what he believes.
God's Truth
New member
Calvinists and all faith alone people believe that we are not to do anything, they do not understand that Paul is NOT speaking of 'no obedience', he is speaking of no purification works.
I can prove it easily, but they will not listen, like your own mother. Wow. That must be a trial!
God's Truth
New member
Robert Pate/faith only and Calvinists/no obedience, they are so similar, they are half siblings that do not get along.
They both argue who obeys God the least, and they both want to say the one who obeys the least is right.
The Calvinists win on that one, but they both loose, because not obeying is not the Way.
They both argue who obeys God the least, and they both want to say the one who obeys the least is right.
The Calvinists win on that one, but they both loose, because not obeying is not the Way.
Nanja
Well-known member
God's Elect, or Sheep, are born into this world lost, but only in the sense that they are in spiritual darkness, and are by nature children of wrath as the non-elect are Eph. 2:3. But the difference is, the Elect were not condemned 1 Cor. 11:32 but are an eternally forgiven world 2 Cor. 5:19 because of their being Chosen In Union with Christ Rom. 8:1 to be holy and without blame before Him in Love, to have forgiveness of sins, and are accepted in the Beloved:
Eph. 1:4-7
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
So then, each one of these Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23 shall be quickened, made Spiritually Alive in New Birth, not by anything they do, but they receive it passively by the Powerful Working of the Holy Spirit.
Eph 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Shasta
Well-known member
I do get into it with her once in a while. For instance, my nephew had an amazing salvation experience and was delivered from drugs. Then he began playing Christian music and leading the Youth Group. Unfortunately, he fell back into sin and is now living with a girl in fornication...yet my mother still thinks he is saved. "Blessed is the servant who when His Lord comes finds him so doing (his will)." My mother is renting a room to them which, I think is wrong because he is a lapsed believer. I have no personal issues with him. It is really about his eternal soul. Of course, since he believes the "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine of antinomianism the from the first moment he put his faith in Christ he was forgiven for all sins past present and future. You know, people say this does not happen. I see it happen all the time.
We are all sinners, Romans 3:23. What you don't understand is that there are saved sinners and lost sinners. The saved sinners are spiritually in Christ, Colossians 3:3. God sees them as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ they are sanctified, justified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30.
God's Truth
New member
I tell you, I am experiencing this same thing in my family.
They say they are saved and love God, but go against me for telling them that if they do love God, then they are to do what He says.
So many years going by, and so much hardship.
Don't we all have enough problems without the self inflicted ones from those who will not obey?
God's Truth
New member
Faith alone is dead.
Only if you are a Judaizer like James.
salvation is by faith alone so that it can be by grace alone.
The Bible teaches no such thing. That is another Calvinist fairy tale.