God's Truth
New member
You are judged as you have judged. That is what Jesus says.
Calvinism Verses the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
You are judged as you have judged. That is what Jesus says.
beloved57
Well-known member
You don't believe the Gospel!
God's Truth
New member
Here come the mockers.
God's Truth
New member
You are too interested in saying that and not proving that.
"My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness". You hope is built on some heretic back in the 1500's.
God's Truth
New member
Tell us, when was Paul's eyes opened? Did Jesus not tell him that He would tell him what he must do? Stay with the scriptures, always stay with the scriptures.
God's Truth
New member
When was your heretic come?
God's Truth
New member
Robert Paul's heretic was rebuked in the times of the New Testament, when the scriptures were written.
Think of James...faith alone is dead.
Think of James...faith alone is dead.
God's Truth
New member
Think also of Peter who says Paul is misunderstood, then he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16 and 17.
God's Truth
New member
You both are ensnared now and do not now have salvation, according to the word of God how can they? Maybe they can still be saved after they die and when their spirit stands in judgement. Will they in their spirit be humble, or will their spirit be stubborn?
God's Truth
New member
Jesus' words are LIFE. All of his words are life.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
The idea of doing right is a positive one. It involves a specific act in conformity to a specific command. Turning from wrong is simply an admission of the wrong trajectory of one's life and actions. It doesn't imply doing a specific (positive) thing other than turning one's back on the specific thing(s) that one was doing that was wrong. In that sense, turning from wrong is not defined as doing right. And when you say a man needs to be acceptable to Jesus before Jesus will save him, it implies a standard of righteousness a man must meet before Jesus will reckon him righteous. THIS IS WRONG. However, in the sense that a man recognizes (by the work of the Holy Spirit in him) that he is estranged from God and doing what God hates, that man's turning from sin IS doing right. It is the right thing - but it isn't done out of man's own reasoned sense or founded on his own realization - it is only the Holy Spirit revealing these things to the man.
Just as Isaiah knew what he was before God when he saw the Lord high and lifted up....
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
...
Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
Isaiah 6:1,5
So is it that we need to have our eyes opened by God and our convictions established by the Holy Spirit - not by our own reckoning.
Just as the Joshua the high priest couldn't do a thing about his own filthy garments...
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.
Zechariah 3:1-5
So are we before the Lord in our own righteousness - needing Him to do what is necessary to make us righteous. Joshua "did" nothing, but he was not protesting his own righteousness before Satan. He knew he was unfit.
Last edited:
God's Truth
New member
You insult James out of your ignorance.
I do not preach circumcision or the observance of special days.
You were taught to say something without meaning.
God's Truth
New member
Well, almost, for it is more than just admitting you are wrong. It is hating your sin and repenting of it.
That is doing something. Now that you have proven you contradict yourself, why not stop?
What you just said is a lie.
You are calling the words of God 'wrong'.
You are trying so hard to keep defending that which is wrong.
Look at what you are saying...you called doing right as one who does wrong. You cannot get past that unless you repent for saying that.
That is repentance and sorrow for doing wrong.
Jesus oopens the eyes of those who obey. Go ahead and keep going against that and I will show you even more scriptures.
God who knows the heart of those he saves.
Jesus is the Way and tells all those who are thirsty HOW TO BE SAVED.
I am telling all who want to be saved and do not feel saved how to be saved, according to Jesus Christ who says to change to be saved.
You are stopping people from being saved.
You are hindering them.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
You need to read the first paragraph of that post I put up as a whole. I'm not saying that repentance is not doing good (or saying it isn't out of one side of my mouth and then that it is out of another). I'm trying to establish the legalistic basis of approaching God as opposed to the basis of grace. The rich young ruler did what you are asking men to do - approach God on the basis of what "I" have done so that God can make me better than I am. The "doing" that makes men acceptable is not "doing" in that sense but simply positional. It is looking upon Christ on the cross (Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.) and away from sin - but it is not described as doing the right thing on one's own effort and one's own understanding (But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.). And again, this is all only predicated upon the work of the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of the blind sinner. To quicken and raise those dead in trespasses and sin. So in that sense, NONE of repentance is our work. But unless we are awakened to righteousness, we can and never will turn from sin. So at the foundation is the work of the Holy Spirit - before anything we ever do or think. So the Publican of Luke 18:13 - who went away justified - was simply the product of the convicting work of the Holy Spirit in him. But work? Where?
No...merely saying that the one who present himself before God (for salvation) on the basis of what he has done won't find a good reception.
Again, you have to take my first paragraph as a whole. Salvation is not of works lest any man should boast. All our righteousness is as filthy rags. Just like the High Priest of Zech 3, we stand before God open and only our eyes being opened by Him will even give us an understanding of that - at which point we will NOT try to gain audience with Him by making ourselves acceptable in terms of doing X, Y, and Z.
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise
Psalm 51:16-17
Just think about that for a moment. Jesus requires the blind to walk in the light (obey...do what is right) before He will make them walk in the right path?!?!
God's Truth
New member
I read it and you said it plainly.
You did say it, and I hope you change your mind about your beliefs.
Jesus is the Way. You have to do what the Way says if you want to be in Christ.
You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.
How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!
The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.
The Holy Spirit opens the eyes of those who believe and obey. Understanding comes from obedience. I have many scriptures that I can prove that to you.
When we obey God, we do God's works.
Again, the work of God is that we do what Jesus says to do. God only gives understanding to those who obey. The whole world is convicted by the Holy Spirit. That means everyone is condemned until they come to Jesus is belief and obedience.
You said what you said. You must reconsider. You said what you said.
Again, read what I said about the filthy rag scripture.
In addition, I am waiting for you to ask for all the scriptures that say we have our eyes opened after we believe and obey.
Jesus gave sight to the blind while he walked the earth, for that was so that people would believe Jesus was who he said he was.
You mixing up physical blindness with spiritual blindness.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
[MENTION=14521]God's Truth[/MENTION]
What righteousness did the publican of Luke 18:13 have (or even claim) that not only gave him an audience with God but justified him before God?
What righteousness did the publican of Luke 18:13 have (or even claim) that not only gave him an audience with God but justified him before God?
God's Truth
New member
nikolai_42
Well-known member
I don't know where you get that this is righteousness - not in the active way (as I was trying to say in that same paragraph). Nowhere in scripture do I see humility being synonymous itself with righteousness. Now, in the sense that there is right standing before God - yes, humility is the right posture before Him. But again, it is positional rather than active (and again....Look unto Me all the ends of the earth and be saved....etc...). And our justification is also positional - it isn't our own (referring back to Joshua the High Priest of Zech 3). So at least some of the disconnect here is terminology.
EDIT : One does not make one's self humble any more than one crucifies one's self. The very thing that is involved in the act cannot be doing the doing. So I don't see humbling one's self as an act. It is (again) a posture. A stance.
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14
The humble heart will pray. That one will gain an audience before God.
Last edited: