Are You Legally Saved?

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Robert Pate

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the GOAL of the Law...the point the standard the reason shadows pointing to Him and the good things to come...look it up in the greek

right so now the Spirit leads you OUTSIDE THE LAW to COUNTER HIM/HIS WAY...as if the Spirit would go against the Father’s will...you follow the Spirit you are protected from the Law because it remains

just like an umbrella...if you are following the Spirit is like being under the umbrella..because you are under the umbrella that doesnt mean you are no longer under the raining rain cloud raining on you protected under the umbrella...go ahead and pretend it aint raining...

No realize you dont control the umbrella but must move with it...good luck


The law remains for the unbelievers.

The purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ, but after we have come to Christ we are no longer under the law. We are then called to live by faith and the Holy Spirit and not according to the law. Galatians 3:23-26.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14. Our sins and the sins of the whole world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete "In Christ".
Another thread on the same topic?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...lish-the-Law&p=5194755&viewfull=1#post5194755

You are out of control, Robert.

AMR
 

clefty

New member
The law remains for the unbelievers.

The purpose of the law is to bring us to Christ, but after we have come to Christ we are no longer under the law. We are then called to live by faith and the Holy Spirit and not according to the law. Galatians 3:23-26.

So that explains why when maybe you were in grammar school you made sense as you were under a tutor following the laws of logic but ever since you graduated you have no need of those laws...

Thanks for clarifying...
 

Robert Pate

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So that explains why when maybe you were in grammar school you made sense as you were under a tutor following the laws of logic but ever since you graduated you have no need of those laws...

Thanks for clarifying...


Your beef is with Paul, not me. I just told you what Paul said and you don't like it.
 

clefty

New member
Your beef is with Paul, not me. I just told you what Paul said and you don't like it.

No I have no beef with Paul as I do know that when in grammar school you learn that 2+2=4 you learn that with your tutor...it is a lesson in the law of addition taught to you by the tutor...and Paul as I do knows that after your graduation from grammar school that law is now in your heart and mind and so when after you graduate you become employed to do some addition the law of addition REMAINS 2+2=4 still...even though you graduated and are no longer under the tutor...

You however have kept insisting now for many threads that the lesson you are taught by your tutor in grammar school about the law of addition is annulled or destroyed or changed BECAUSE YOU GRADUATED so now when you are hired by a boss to do some law of addition...it is no longer applicable...so now 2+2=5 or 42 or the color RED...it dont matter...for you, after graduation (in the Spirit/Christ) the law of addition you learned with the tutor no longer applies...no longer exists...

Do you work for the government?
 

iouae

Well-known member
God is a God of law and judgment. Everything that God does is according to his law. He will not and cannot overlook sin, which is a transgression of his law, 1 John 3:4. God does not look the other way when it comes to sin.

Many religions are not according to God's law. Calvinism is one of them. Calvinist believe that God has chosen "some certain persons" to be saved, without being justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, who is God's justifier, Romans 3:26. Jesus only justifies those that believe in him.

"But to him that does no works, BUT BELIEVES ON HIM that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The condition for justification is that you believe in Jesus. Not that you have been predestinated. No justification means no salvation. Another religion that is not according to God's law is Catholicism. Catholics believe that they are justified by their works and their piety. There is a serious problem with this. The problem is that everyone is a sinner. God does not accept the works, obedience or the piety of sinners. Catholics believe that God is the minister of sin.

The reason that Jesus is not present on this earth is because of sin. He is here only in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

"For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS and made higher than the heavens, Hebrews 7:26.

Jesus is not the minister of sin, nor is he involved in the sins of humanity. The work of Christ is a finished work. When he finished providing salvation for fallen man he returned to heaven where he is mediating his atonement for our sins and his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 1:3.

Jesus is our legal advocate. He is our representative. If we did not have legal representation we would all be without hope. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. He did this for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as legally justified and saved.

That was not enough. In order for us to be legally saved something must be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world.

"For he has made him (our representative) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14. Our sins and the sins of the whole world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete "In Christ".

Robert, you were doing so well until that last paragraph. I don't know what the Catholics or Calvinists believe, so I hope you accurately represent them.

But the rest, very nice :)
 

Robert Pate

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Robert, you were doing so well until that last paragraph. I don't know what the Catholics or Calvinists believe, so I hope you accurately represent them.

But the rest, very nice :)


What is it that you don't like about the last paragraph?
 

eleos

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There is no way to be "legally saved". The law ... the 10 commandments are not abolished. We receive Christ by faith and He then begins His work in the believer through the Holy Spirit and over the course of our lives we learn to walk in more harmony with the "law". It is a life long changing process and we stumble here and there. We repent and are forgiven. Jesus helps us to overcome. In the end He will complete His work that is needed in us and He intercedes for us in heaven, in order for us to receive eternal life. We will never see perfection in our earthly lifetime but by receiving Jesus as our savior and with the Holy spirit being in us, we strive for it ... becoming in more harmony with the law.

If it were not for the law .... we would not know sin. Therefore the law (10 commandments) are not abolished. We will be judged by the law .... but will be seen through the blood of Jesus as being perfect. His works, His righteousness, His perfection. We by ourselves have nothing good to offer.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Calvinist don't like to hear the Gospel because it refutes their doctrine. Isn't that what your gripe is really about?
Actually, no, Robert, it is not. We Reformed have no issue with anyone who thinks they have some refutation of that which we hold dear. There is nothing new under the sun, nor what you may devise to presume a defeater of Reformed theology. Answers are always at the ready, as you have been given too often.

The "gripe" I have deals with your redundancy and unwillingness to engage substantively, to wit:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...nist-threads&p=4949268&viewfull=1#post4949268

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...OSOEVER-quot&p=5029934&viewfull=1#post5029934

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ne-of-Demons&p=5072918&viewfull=1#post5072918

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...aw-We-Establish-the-Law&p=5199881#post5199881

:AMR:

AMR
 

iouae

Well-known member
What is it that you don't like about the last paragraph?

"The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14.".

You would not like to live in a lawless world.

You are right in most of your post, and even that first sentence quoted above.

Where you err is to say the law is ABOLISHED.

The purpose of the law was never to save. It was to keep carnal Israelites on the straight and narrow.
But Israel became too comfortable with the law, thinking that by "doing" it they were totally pleasing to God, when in fact they needed to "kiss the Son" and befriend the Son of God. They saw no need for the Son, since they had the law, and manmade righteousness, which is as filthy rags.

The law is one tool in God's toolkit. It points out sin. Another tool is the cross and the sacrifice of Christ, to cover those sins. Under the OT they had sacrifices, Atonements etc. which they thought sufficient. Christ tried to tell them "No". Thus the law has become a stumbling block to the Jews.

But it is still true that lying, adultery, murder, having other gods etc. still annoy God.
 

Robert Pate

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"The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14.".

You would not like to live in a lawless world.

You are right in most of your post, and even that first sentence quoted above.

Where you err is to say the law is ABOLISHED.

The purpose of the law was never to save. It was to keep carnal Israelites on the straight and narrow.
But Israel became too comfortable with the law, thinking that by "doing" it they were totally pleasing to God, when in fact they needed to "kiss the Son" and befriend the Son of God. They saw no need for the Son, since they had the law, and manmade righteousness, which is as filthy rags.

The law is one tool in God's toolkit. It points out sin. Another tool is the cross and the sacrifice of Christ, to cover those sins. Under the OT they had sacrifices, Atonements etc. which they thought sufficient. Christ tried to tell them "No". Thus the law has become a stumbling block to the Jews.

But it is still true that lying, adultery, murder, having other gods etc. still annoy God.


The scriptures indicate that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, Romans 6:15. Plus many others.

God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, However, there will be a judgment when Jesus appears.
 

john w

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The reason that Jesus is not present on this earth is because of sin. He is here only in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

"For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS and made higher than the heavens, Hebrews 7:26.

Huh? This is another example of Pate just wingin' it, making thingsup, on the fly. The Lord Jesus Christ did live on earth, in the midst of sin/sinners, did He not? Rhetorical q.

Sit, Pate. You are dangerous, and hurt the cause of Christ.
 

Robert Pate

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Huh? This is another example of Pate just wingin' it, making thingsup, on the fly. The Lord Jesus Christ did live on earth, in the midst of sin/sinners, did He not? Rhetorical q.

Sit, Pate. You are dangerous, and hurt the cause of Christ.

He is not here now. He is in heaven at the right hand of God mediating his righteousness and his atonement for our sins, Hebrews 7:25.
 

Sherman

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Actually, no, Robert, it is not. We Reformed have no issue with anyone who thinks they have some refutation of that which we hold dear. There is nothing new under the sun, nor what you may devise to presume a defeater of Reformed theology. Answers are always at the ready, as you have been given too often.

The "gripe" I have deals with your redundancy and unwillingness to engage substantively, to wit:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...nist-threads&p=4949268&viewfull=1#post4949268

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...OSOEVER-quot&p=5029934&viewfull=1#post5029934

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ne-of-Demons&p=5072918&viewfull=1#post5072918

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...aw-We-Establish-the-Law&p=5199881#post5199881

:AMR:

AMR

AMR, ​You made my point again. Pate's sole problem on this site is Redundancy. He making posts to get his post count up and he's being repetitious while he's at it. My issue with him is his repetition opening too many threads on the same topic when he only needs one. Robert, remember Micheal Cadry's thread on Creation Versus Evolution? It was TOL most popular thread. It was a single thread. Another examples would be DFT_Dave Flat Earth Thread. It's still going. He's not flooding the site with the subject. He's keeping it in one thread. You need to learn to do the same. You might get a lot more participation if you keep one well maintained thread.
 

jamie

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He is not here now. He is in heaven at the right hand of God mediating his righteousness and his atonement for our sins, Hebrews 7:25.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Colossians 1:27)

You don't seem to understand why Christ was resurrected.
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
AMR, ​You made my point again. Pate's sole problem on this site is Redundancy. He making posts to get his post count up and he's being repetitious while he's at it. My issue with him is his repetition opening too many threads on the same topic when he only needs one. Robert, remember Micheal Cadry's thread on Creation Versus Evolution? It was TOL most popular thread. It was a single thread. Another examples would be DFT_Dave Flat Earth Thread. It's still going. He's not flooding the site with the subject. He's keeping it in one thread. You need to learn to do the same. You might get a lot more participation if you keep one well maintained thread.

It is no secret that you don't like me, nor do you like what I post. I will continue to present Jesus Christ and his Gospel. If you don't like it then I guess you will have to ban me.
 
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