Are You Legally Saved?

[Robert Pate]

God is a God of law and judgment. Everything that God does is according to his law. He will not and cannot overlook sin, which is a transgression of his law, 1 John 3:4. God does not look the other way when it comes to sin.

Many religions are not according to God's law. Calvinism is one of them. Calvinist believe that God has chosen "some certain persons" to be saved, without being justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, who is God's justifier, Romans 3:26. Jesus only justifies those that believe in him.

"But to him that does no works, BUT BELIEVES ON HIM that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The condition for justification is that you believe in Jesus. Not that you have been predestinated. No justification means no salvation. Another religion that is not according to God's law is Catholicism. Catholics believe that they are justified by their works and their piety. There is a serious problem with this. The problem is that everyone is a sinner. God does not accept the works, obedience or the piety of sinners. Catholics believe that God is the minister of sin.

The reason that Jesus is not present on this earth is because of sin. He is here only in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

"For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS and made higher than the heavens, Hebrews 7:26.

Jesus is not the minister of sin, nor is he involved in the sins of humanity. The work of Christ is a finished work. When he finished providing salvation for fallen man he returned to heaven where he is mediating his atonement for our sins and his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 1:3.

Jesus is our legal advocate. He is our representative. If we did not have legal representation we would all be without hope. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. He did this for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as legally justified and saved.

That was not enough. In order for us to be legally saved something must be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world.

"For he has made him (our representative) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14. Our sins and the sins of the whole world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete "In Christ".

 

[beloved57]

God is a God of law and judgment. Everything that God does is according to his law. He will not and cannot overlook sin, which is a transgression of his law, 1 John 3:4. God does not look the other way when it comes to sin.

Many religions are not according to God's law. Calvinism is one of them. Calvinist believe that God has chosen "some certain persons" to be saved, without being justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, who is God's justifier, Romans 3:26. Jesus only justifies those that believe in him.

"But to him that does no works, BUT BELIEVES ON HIM that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The condition for justification is that you believe in Jesus. Not that you have been predestinated. No justification means no salvation. Another religion that is not according to God's law is Catholicism. Catholics believe that they are justified by their works and their piety. There is a serious problem with this. The problem is that everyone is a sinner. God does not accept the works, obedience or the piety of sinners. Catholics believe that God is the minister of sin.

The reason that Jesus is not present on this earth is because of sin. He is here only in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

"For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS and made higher than the heavens, Hebrews 7:26.

Jesus is not the minister of sin, nor is he involved in the sins of humanity. The work of Christ is a finished work. When he finished providing salvation for fallen man he returned to heaven where he is mediating his atonement for our sins and his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 1:3.

Jesus is our legal advocate. He is our representative. If we did not have legal representation we would all be without hope. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. He did this for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as legally justified and saved.

That was not enough. In order for us to be legally saved something must be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world.

"For he has made him (our representative) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14. Our sins and the sins of the whole world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete "In Christ".

This is promoting justification by works, by what a person does !

 

[fishrovmen]

Robert,
What "law" are you talking about? The one that was supposedly in your mind abolished? Is it back again?

 

[jamie]

Robert,
What "law" are you talking about? The one that was supposedly in your mind abolished? Is it back again?

It seems that for Robert law is any instruction from God.

Robert is willing to obey man's law but not God's law.

He claims that since Jesus kept God's law he doesn't have to.

Strange reasoning.

The second law for Israel was superseded by the first law written by Christ.

This law was written on stone because it is forever.

It's the law by which we judge ourselves.

 

[clefty]

God is a God of law and judgment. Everything that God does is according to his law. He will not and cannot overlook sin, which is a transgression of his law, 1 John 3:4. God does not look the other way when it comes to sin.

Many religions are not according to God's law. Calvinism is one of them. Calvinist believe that God has chosen "some certain persons" to be saved, without being justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, who is God's justifier, Romans 3:26. Jesus only justifies those that believe in him.

"But to him that does no works, BUT BELIEVES ON HIM that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The condition for justification is that you believe in Jesus. Not that you have been predestinated. No justification means no salvation. Another religion that is not according to God's law is Catholicism. Catholics believe that they are justified by their works and their piety. There is a serious problem with this. The problem is that everyone is a sinner. God does not accept the works, obedience or the piety of sinners. Catholics believe that God is the minister of sin.

The reason that Jesus is not present on this earth is because of sin. He is here only in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

"For such a high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, SEPARATE FROM SINNERS and made higher than the heavens, Hebrews 7:26.

Jesus is not the minister of sin, nor is he involved in the sins of humanity. The work of Christ is a finished work. When he finished providing salvation for fallen man he returned to heaven where he is mediating his atonement for our sins and his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 1:3.

Jesus is our legal advocate. He is our representative. If we did not have legal representation we would all be without hope. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. He did this for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as legally justified and saved.

That was not enough. In order for us to be legally saved something must be done about our sins and the sins of the whole world.

"For he has made him (our representative) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

The ultimate price for the sins of humanity has been satisfied by the death of Christ. The law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18. and abolished, Colossians 2:14. Our sins and the sins of the whole world have been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete "In Christ".

Legally saved...from what?

What a hoot...coming from one who claims there is no law...

Even those who are saved need due process and application of the law...adoption laws restoration laws etc...

 

[turbosixx]

"For he has made him (our representative) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

1 Jn. 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,
What "law" are you talking about? The one that was supposedly in your mind abolished? Is it back again?

Only if you bring it back. "The Just Shall Live By Faith". The rest live by laws and religion.

 

[Robert Pate]

Legally saved...from what?

What a hoot...coming from one who claims there is no law...

Even those who are saved need due process and application of the law...adoption laws restoration laws etc...

We are under man's law. If you break it you could go to jail.

But there is no longer a law for Christians. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

 

[clefty]

We are under man's law. If you break it you could go to jail.

But there is no longer a law for Christians. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Man’s law? Which law is that which makes us adopted citizens of Israel, inheritors of the Promise, His people and rightfully and legally granted access to the tree of life?

You know to live with Him in His House according to His house rules...

 

[Robert Pate]

Man’s law? Which law is that which makes us adopted citizens of Israel, inheritors of the Promise, His people and rightfully and legally granted access to the tree of life?

You know to live with Him in His House according to His house rules...

"The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not according to laws, rules or religion.

The reason that the just shall live by faith is because they know what is right and what is wrong and they live accordingly. If you need laws and rules then you must be one of these, 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

 

[genuineoriginal]

We are under man's law. If you break it you could go to jail.

But there is no longer a law for Christians. It has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

You are taking a part of a sentence out of context in order to support an idea that Paul would never agree with.

Here is the context:

Ephesians 2:11-18 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.​

Paul is speaking about Jesus providing the ability for both Jews and Gentiles to access the Father.
The Gentiles are no longer barred from this access by the separation between Jew and Gentile created by the commandments given for the Jews that allowed them to access the Father through the Levitical priesthood.
The law itself has not been abolished (made void), it just has lost the power to prevent Gentiles form having access to the Father by requiring eveyone to go through the Levitical priesthood.


Here are some of the things that have not been abolished from the law:

Romans 13:9 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

"The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not according to laws, rules or religion.

The reason that the just shall live by faith is because they know what is right and what is wrong and they live accordingly.

You have been corrected on this over and over.
Paul quoted the Old Testament that states the righteous shall live because of their faithfulness.
The reason the righteous will live is because the righteous are righteous because they do righteousness, this is how their faithfulness is manifested.

 

[Robert Pate]

You are taking a part of a sentence out of context in order to support an idea that Paul would never agree with.

Here is the context:

Ephesians 2:11-18 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.​

Paul is speaking about Jesus providing the ability for both Jews and Gentiles to access the Father.
The Gentiles are no longer barred from this access by the separation between Jew and Gentile created by the commandments given for the Jews that allowed them to access the Father through the Levitical priesthood.
The law itself has not been abolished (made void), it just has lost the power to prevent Gentiles form having access to the Father by requiring eveyone to go through the Levitical priesthood.


Here are some of the things that have not been abolished from the law:

Romans 13:9 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.​

Christians are not under laws or rules. To be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10. If you need the law perhaps you are one of these, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Christians are not under laws or rules. To be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

This is the curse of the law:

Deuteronomy 11:28 28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.​

You are trying to turn people aside out of the way that the Lord commanded us to walk in.
This is what the law states is to be done to people that do what you are doing:

Deuteronomy 13:5 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.​

Here is the example Paul provides for us to follow:

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

You have been taking isolated verses out of Paul's writings and are using them to teach the opposite of what Paul tried to teach.

 

[clefty]

"The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not according to laws, rules or religion.

The reason that the just shall live by faith is because they know what is right and what is wrong and they live accordingly. If you need laws and rules then you must be one of these, 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

What is right and what is wrong is determined by what the law STILL BINDING determines you silly lawless one...

Right and wrong is His law written in your hearts and mind...

IF YOU DONT HAVE HIS LAW WHICH IS WRITTEN ON YOUR MIND IT’S BECAUSE YA DUN LOST YER MIND

Notice: “Here are they that KEEP the commandments...and have the FAITH OF...” NOT and those that have faith IN...did you catch that?...it’s not just have faith IN Him and then nothing else...but the FAITH OF Him...means live as He did...His faith...What is His faith? Doing His Father’s will...His commandments

How else would anyone know right from wrong and live accordingly...not right by man or right by Buddha or Allah but RIGHT BY HIM...your life looks like His because you do as He did...to abide in His love...

 

[Robert Pate]

This is the curse of the law:

Deuteronomy 11:28 28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.​

You are trying to turn people aside out of the way that the Lord commanded us to walk in.
This is what the law states is to be done to people that do what you are doing:

Deuteronomy 13:5 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.​

Here is the example Paul provides for us to follow:

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

You have been taking isolated verses out of Paul's writings and are using them to teach the opposite of what Paul tried to teach.

What are you doing quoting Old Testament stuff? Under the Old Testament there was law. Under the New Testament "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules laws or religion.

Paul said that, "Christ is THE END of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.

The law has been replaced with the Holy Spirit.

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law" Galatians 5:18.

 

[genuineoriginal]

What are you doing quoting Old Testament stuff?

How many times did Paul quote Old Testament stuff in the book of Romans?
74 times.
What did Paul know that you don't?

 

[Robert Pate]

How many times did Paul quote Old Testament stuff in the book of Romans?
74 times.
What did Paul know that you don't?

Yes, but when Paul quoted it, it was in context with the Gospel.

Paul never taught the law as a means of righteousness. He taught the law to show that we are sinners. That is the purpose of the law.

"By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yes, but when Paul quoted it, it was in context with the Gospel.

Paul never taught the law as a means of righteousness. He taught the law to show that we are sinners. That is the purpose of the law.

"By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Your thinking is backward.
That is understandable since you have been taught to think about righteousness and the law backwards as the main teaching of your religion.

The righteous person does what is right (in accordance to the Law of God) because he is righteous and doing what is right is the definition of righteousness.
Because the righteous person is righteous, he does what is right (in accordance to the Law of God).

The wicked does not become righteous by reluctantly complying with the Law of God or by twisting the words to mean something else so they could continue doing wickedness.
That is the error of the Pharisees.
The wicked will always find ways to make the Law of God void (like you are doing).

Does the righteous person need the Law of God to tell him what is right?
No, the righteous person knows what is right, even the things that are not written in the Law.
Does the wicked person need the Law of God to tell him what is right?
Yes, the wicked person has no clue what is right without the Law.

Does a righteous Christian need the Law?
Yes, but not as a guide for himself.
The righteous Christian needs the Law when talking to the wicked to show the wicked person what is right.

If a wicked person does not become righteous by following the Law of God, how does a wicked person become righteous?
A wicked person becomes righteous through repentance.
The Law of God can show a wicked person what is right so the wicked person can be convicted by his own conscience and repent.

 

[clefty]

What are you doing quoting Old Testament stuff? Under the Old Testament there was law. Under the New Testament "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules laws or religion.

Paul said that, "Christ is THE END of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4.

the GOAL of the Law...the point the standard the reason shadows pointing to Him and the good things to come...look it up in the greek

The law has been replaced with the Holy Spirit.

right so now the Spirit leads you OUTSIDE THE LAW to COUNTER HIM/HIS WAY...as if the Spirit would go against the Father’s will...you follow the Spirit you are protected from the Law because it remains

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law" Galatians 5:18.

just like an umbrella...if you are following the Spirit is like being under the umbrella..because you are under the umbrella that doesnt mean you are no longer under the raining rain cloud raining on you protected under the umbrella...go ahead and pretend it aint raining...

Now realize you dont control the umbrella but must move with it...good luck