ECT Are we born sinless? Pelagianism and semi-pelagianism

[dodge]

Oh, dear....a literary device protected by God. Will wonders never cease. :chew:

I am done with your trashing scripture placing scripture under and subservient to your opinion.

Debating with you about scripture has been a big waste of time it is obvious scripture doesn't mean a whole lot to you unless it fits your opinion. Not only do you place scripture under your personal opinions and whims you are pretty much clueless when it comes to scripture and the things of God.

Bye now !

:wave:

 

[glorydaz]

Why are you being so obtuse. IF and that is a big if in your case you actually believe scripture it says no one wrote but what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write. Can you even read ?

"Inspired THEM to write". Haven't you noticed that the different authors have their own style of writing?

 

[glorydaz]

They talked the talk but did not walk the walk.

lol, you might wast to look in mirror you don't have a clue.

I am done with your trashing scripture placing scripture under and subservient to your opinion.

Debating with you about scripture has been a big waste of time it is obvious scripture doesn't mean a whole lot to you unless it fits your opinion. Not only do you place scripture under your personal opinions and whims you are pretty much clueless when it comes to scripture and the things of God.

Bye now !

:wave:

:mock: Dodge

 

[intojoy]

Unless the baby comes out clothed in radiant light, somethin's definitely wrong


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[intojoy]

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?”
??Jeremiah? ?17:9? ?ASV??
http://bible.com/12/jer.17.9.asv


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[intojoy]

“And Jehovah said, My Spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.”
??Genesis? ?6:3? ?ASV??
http://bible.com/12/gen.6.3.asv


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[intojoy]

“And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
??Genesis? ?6:5-7? ?ASV??
http://bible.com/12/gen.6.5-7.asv


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[intojoy]

Anyone see where this is going yet?


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[intojoy]

So, some here on the side of babies being born with no sin nature also believe that the nephilim were half demon half human.
How is it that their babies are born without sin again?


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[intojoy]

So, some here on the side of babies being born with no sin nature also believe that the nephilim were half demon half human.
How is it that their babies are born without sin again?


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I know it's a tuff question


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[Jerry Shugart]

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?”
??Jeremiah? ?17:9? ?ASV?

Men corrupt themselves:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).​

When something is corrupted it goes from a state that is "good" unto a state which is "bad."

That means that before anyone corrupts himself his state is "good," just like the state of Adam when he was created (Gen.1:31).

It is ridiculous to argue that men emerge from the womb spiritually dead because that state cannot be described as being "good."

How is it that their babies are born without sin again?

Would you give me your definition of the word "sin"?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Mat 23:27
¶
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness


They talked the talk but did not walk the walk.

This is not good verbiage at all. They talked the talk of Satan and they walked it too. Hence... "serpents"

 

[dodge]

This is not good verbiage at all. They talked the talk of Satan and they walked it too. Hence... "serpents"

They were the religious leaders of Israel ! They heaped burdens on others that they themselves would not perform. They also became a road block to knowing God.

 

[intojoy]

Men corrupt themselves:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).​

When something is corrupted it goes from a state that is "good" unto a state which is "bad."

That means that before anyone corrupts himself his state is "good," just like the state of Adam when he was created (Gen.1:31).

It is ridiculous to argue that men emerge from the womb spiritually dead because that state cannot be described as being "good."



Would you give me your definition of the word "sin"?

Spiritually dead to God


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[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Cain offered a bloodless sacrifice and God protects "types" all throughout scripture.

Able prepared a lamb and blood was shed and offered, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission !

Again... Remission means Debt paid and this is theologically incorrect. Heb. 10:4 makes this clear. There is no mistake that you are shifting the focus away from humility and placing it on "works".

Again...

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.​

I fully understand the typification... but you are now sidestepping my actual points by incorrectly citing that Animal sacrifice "remitted" sin.

In fact... you stopped debate with me on the topic of Ademic implications after I posted and reposted a specific reply to you on another thread. I'll do my best to find it and link it.

I'm beginning to suspect that you are at the limits of your learned doctrine.

 

[Danoh]

Men corrupt themselves:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).​

When something is corrupted it goes from a state that is "good" unto a state which is "bad."

That means that before anyone corrupts himself his state is "good," just like the state of Adam when he was created (Gen.1:31).

It is ridiculous to argue that men emerge from the womb spiritually dead because that state cannot be described as being "good."



Would you give me your definition of the word "sin"?

That passage in Ex. 32:7 has nothing to do with what you are reading into it.

Ol Mo was up on that Mountain receiving the very Law while they were corrupting themselves before the Law was given.

The issue was their departure from the God of their fathers unto the ways of the heathen - corruption they had already known in Egypt.

And as intojoy noted, even "innocent" - "all flesh" - babies perished in The Flood.

Babies, and cute puppies, you name it; all perished in The Flood.

Your wood is wet, bro

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

They were the religious leaders of Israel ! They heaped burdens on others that they themselves would not perform. They also became a road block to knowing God.

This is good verbiage... There were some God fearing Pharisees, but they stayed out of Jesus' way or "sought Him in secret".

 

[dodge]

Evil.Eye.<(I)>;4991937]

Again... Remission means Debt paid and this is theologically incorrect. Heb. 10:4 makes this clear. There is no mistake that you are shifting the focus away from humility and placing it on "works".

Again...

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.​

I fully understand the typification... but you are now sidestepping my actual points by incorrectly citing that Animal sacrifice "remitted" sin.

God seemed to think it was important i.e. blood as a type of the coming Messiah since He instituted blood sacrifice immediately after the fall through Adam, he received skins of sacrificed animals, and Able receiving the same covering through blood of sacrificed animals.

In fact... you stopped debate with me on the topic of Ademic implications after I posted and reposted a specific reply to you on another thread. I'll do my best to find it and link it.

I stopped the debate because you dismissed every verse that PROVES man is born with a sinful and fallen nature. Original sin is in scripture.

I'm beginning to suspect that you are at the limits of your learned doctrine.

I began to suspect that your whole purpose was to promote an UN-scriptural position of man being born in the same unspoiled image as Adam when scripture in many places teach that mankind is "fallen".

We agree that we disagree. AS you I base what I believe on scripture. I see no purpose to debate with anyone who dismisses or puts scripture in conflict with itself.

Peace

 

[dodge]

This is good verbiage... There were some God fearing Pharisees, but they stayed out of Jesus' way or "sought Him in secret".

Some= 1

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

God seemed to think it was important i.e. blood as a type of the coming Messiah since He instituted blood sacrifice immediately after the fall through Adam, he received skins of sacrificed animals, and Able receiving the same covering through blood of sacrificed animals.

I stopped the debate because you dismissed every verse that PROVES man is born with a sinful and fallen nature. Original sin is in scripture.

I began to suspect that your whole purpose was to promote an UN-scriptural position of man being born in the same unspoiled image as Adam when scripture in many places teach that mankind is "fallen".

We agree that we disagree. AS you I base what I believe on scripture. I see no purpose to debate with anyone who dismisses or puts scripture in conflict with itself.

Peace

I went back and found it. I dismissed no verses but offered perspective that comes from all scripture instead of "some" scripture. We see this occur with the Torah continually. Which... Genesis is part of.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...t-3)-execute&p=4985814&viewfull=1#post4985814

I agree to disagree, as well. You've been putting scripture in conflict with itself quite a bit and I haven't ceased debate. Let the record show that the sailor didn't throw his sucker in the dirt and walk off like the marine.

And...

All Grace and Peace,

- EE