ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Sozo]

Did anyone say that God is "distanced" (besides you)?

The point is we can grieve God, thats it! That's the point! Sozo rejects that point.

Sozo says the following verse means something other than what it so plainly states..... "Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. "

I've already corrected you ONCE for misrepresenting what I said, (in which you failed to apologize).

Here you do it again.

 

[Lighthouse]

Did anyone say that God is "distanced" (besides you)?

I believe that is what Sozo thought you meant. And I was hoping it wasn't. I now see it wasn't.

The point is we can grieve God, thats it! That's the point! Sozo rejects that point.

Okay. But it does not change our position in Him, nor our identity. Therefore, our relationship to Him stays the same. He may be grieved, but He continues to love us, just the same. That is why He convicts, admonishes and disciplines us. Just like you do for your kids. But you already knew that.

Sozo says the following verse means something other than what it so plainly states..... "Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. "

Honestly I think he was just trying to say that it doesn't change our position. But he did say that we can grieve God. He just needs to understand that preaching the wrong thing isn't the only way we can do that.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

We'll start there, and then I'll continue.

How about we start with the post I already posted?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Sozo... earlier in this thread when I brought up Eph 4:30 you stated....

When I find the time (If I'm still here), I will provide for you a commentary on Ephesians chapter 4, so that you will see that the context of the passage is dealing with false teachers who were dividing the Body and causing strife among believers, which therefore grieves the Holy Spirit.

It seemed to me you were insinuating that Eph 4:30 was not showing that we could grieve the Holy Spirit. :idunno:

 

[Sozo]

How about we start with the post I already posted?

I did :sigh:

I'm dealing with each point separately.

If the premise is wrong, then chances are good that everything else is wrong.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I did :sigh:

I'm dealing with each point separately.

If the premise is wrong, then chances are good that everything else is wrong.

Do you "keep His commandments"?

Do you reject that 1 John is written primarily to John's "little children" (those of the circumcision)?

 

[Sozo]

Sozo... earlier in this thread when I brought up Eph 4:30 you stated....It seemed to me you were insinuating that Eph 4:30 was not showing that we could grieve the Holy Spirit. :idunno:

No, I was showing that what grieves the Spirit is exactly what is taking place on this website, and in exchanges among the Body because of false teaching.

Again, it is false teaching that divides. We are not to let the sun go down on our anger over those who bring division, and we are not sinning when we oppose them.
If they repent we forgive them, just as God in Christ has forgiven us.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No, I was showing that what grieves the Spirit is exactly what is taking place on this website, and in exchanges among the Body because of false teaching.

Again, it is false teaching that divides. We are not to let the sun go down on our anger over those who bring division, and we are not sinning when we oppose them.
If they repent we forgive them, just as God in Christ has forgiven us.

Huh?

Nevermind.....

Can a Christian grieve God?

A yes or no, would be great!

 

[Sozo]

Do you "keep His commandments"?

1 John 3:23

"And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us."

Do you reject that 1 John is written primarily to John's "little children" (those of the circumcision)?

That's what we are trying to determine, isn't it? lain:

 

[Sozo]

Huh?

Nevermind.....

Can a Christian grieve God?

A yes or no, would be great!

Yes, but you are trying to make a blanket statement that does not apply. I find this odd coming from someone who is so intent on "rightly dividing".

When others have used the verse "I the Lord do not change", you scream "foul", because it cannot stand on it's own (which is true).

There is a reason God is grieved. He is not grieved for everything you think He is grieved for. There is a reason that verse is there. It has a context, just like the verse in Mal. does.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

1 John 3:23

"And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us."

That's what we are trying to determine, isn't it? lain:

But what if you don't "keep" that commandment? Are you no longer saved?

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. (I think that verse pretty much proves John is talking about more than 1 commandment).

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2John 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.


Also....

1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Sozo do you "practice righteousness"?

3 John 11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.

Does that sound like works or grace? :think:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yes, but you are trying to make a blanket statement that does not apply. I find this odd coming from someone who is so intent on "rightly dividing".

When others have used the verse "I the Lord do not change", you scream "foul", because it cannot stand on it's own (which is true).

There is a reason God is grieved. He is not grieved for everything you think He is grieved for. There is a reason that verse is there. It has a context, just like the verse in Mal. does.

That's all irrelevant!

Can a Christian grieve God (for any reason whatsoever)????

 

[Sozo]

That's all irrelevant!

Can a Christian grieve God (for any reason whatsoever)????

I've said "Yes" everytime you've asked me.

 

[Sozo]

But what if you don't "keep" that commandment? Are you no longer saved?

We are to obey the gospel.

Paul writes...

"For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I've said "Yes" everytime you've asked me.

Ok, so that grieving is a TYPE of effect that our sinning/misbehaving can create in our relationship with God.

Agree?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

We are to obey the gospel.

Paul writes...

"For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

Why jump to Paul to explain 1st John?

I have heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul but jumping to Paul to explain John???? :shocked:



ANSWER KEY:
Paul wrote to the uncircumcision
The Twelve wrote to the circumcision

 

[Sozo]

Ok, so that grieving is a TYPE of effect that our sinning/misbehaving can create in our relationship with God.

Agree?

No. Grieving is what God does because of our relationships with each other. It is not an offense to God, it is a grief.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No. Grieving is what God does because of our relationships with each other. It is not an offense to God, it is a grief.

Can the following two types of relationships exist (simultaneously or not simultaneously)? Are the following two options possible or not?

1. Our relationship with God (in good standing) and God is NOT grieving about anything we have done.

2. Our relationship with God (in good standing) yet God is grieving about something we have done.

Isn't it possible that we can "relate" to God with, or without, Him grieving about something we have done???

 

[Sozo]

Can the following two types of relationships exist (simultaneously or not simultaneously)? Are the following two options possible or not?

1. Our relationship with God (in good standing) and God is not grieving about anything we have done.

2. Our relationship with God (in good standing) yet God is grieving about something we have done.

Isn't it possible that we can "relate" to God with, or without, Him grieving about something we have done???

Yes
Yes
&
Yes

However, if God grieves over what God defines as sin, then God is never not grieving.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yes

So why even argue with me on this point?

If you agree, why disagree?

Nevermind, lets get back to the other spanking I am giving you.