Jesus preached that God's kingdom is a spiritual kingdom that a person enters by God's grace.
Paul preached the same thing.
"And you are complete in him" (Jesus Christ) Colossians 2:10
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Jesus preached that God's kingdom is a spiritual kingdom that a person enters by God's grace.
Paul preached the same thing.
Epoisses
New member
Did Jesus ever use the word grace?
Nanja
Well-known member
Only the Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9, those Chosen In Union with Christ and Predestined to be God's Adopted Children before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5 to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7, never having any sin laid to their charge but laid on Him in their stead Is. 53:6, were already made complete in Christ, their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 even before they ever believed.
So, His Elect are forever Complete in Christ because He has Obeyed all God's Law and Justice impeccably on their behalf 2 Cor. 5:19, 21. So then, in time what He has accomplished for them shall be revealed to Faith given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22!
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"And you are complete in him" (Jesus Christ) Colossians 2:10
"And you are complete in him" (Jesus Christ) Colossians 2:10
No, but the Gospel of John says He provided it.
John 1:17 for the law was given through Moses,
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Sent from my iPad using TOL Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
"And you are complete in him" (Jesus Christ) Colossians 2:10
No, but the Gospel of John says He provided it.
John 1:17 for the law was given through Moses,
grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Sent from my iPad using TOL Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Why would he? What would have been the point?
Epoisses
New member
Jesus did use the word grace one time at Paul's request to have his thorn removed.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. 2Cor. 12:9 - words of Christ in red.
The two gospel people will have a hard time with that one.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. 2Cor. 12:9 - words of Christ in red.
The two gospel people will have a hard time with that one.
Are you suggesting that John got it wrong when he, by REVELATION wrote the book of REVELATION and wrote that there are TWELVE gates surrounding the New Jerusalem, that the cities walls are on TWELVE foundations, each with a name of one of the TWELVE Apostles and, as Jesus Himself stated in the gospels, that the TWELVE Apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones, ruling over Israel?
Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits(12 x 12), according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
Matthew 19:28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:28 “But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. 29 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, 30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
Genesis 49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father spoke to them. And he blessed them; he blessed each one according to his own blessing.
Exodus 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exodus 28:21 And the stones shall have the names of the sons of Israel, twelve according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, each one with its own name; they shall be according to the twelve tribes. (Repeated verbatim in Ex. 39:14)
Joshua 3:12 Now therefore, take for yourselves twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one man from every tribe.
Joshua 4:8 And the children of Israel did so, just as Joshua commanded, and took up twelve stones from the midst of the Jordan, as the Lord had spoken to Joshua, according to the number of the tribes of the children of Israel, and carried them over with them to the place where they lodged, and laid them down there.
1 Kings 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.”
Ezra 6:17 And they offered sacrifices at the dedication of this house of God, one hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel twelve male goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel.
Ezekiel 47:13 Thus says the Lord God: “These are the borders by which you shall divide the land as an inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel. Joseph shall have two portions.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits(12 x 12), according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
Matthew 19:28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:28 “But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. 29 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, 30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
Genesis 49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father spoke to them. And he blessed them; he blessed each one according to his own blessing.
Exodus 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exodus 28:21 And the stones shall have the names of the sons of Israel, twelve according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, each one with its own name; they shall be according to the twelve tribes. (Repeated verbatim in Ex. 39:14)
Joshua 3:12 Now therefore, take for yourselves twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one man from every tribe.
Joshua 4:8 And the children of Israel did so, just as Joshua commanded, and took up twelve stones from the midst of the Jordan, as the Lord had spoken to Joshua, according to the number of the tribes of the children of Israel, and carried them over with them to the place where they lodged, and laid them down there.
1 Kings 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.”
Ezra 6:17 And they offered sacrifices at the dedication of this house of God, one hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs, and as a sin offering for all Israel twelve male goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel.
Ezekiel 47:13 Thus says the Lord God: “These are the borders by which you shall divide the land as an inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel. Joseph shall have two portions.
So then, which of these misunderstood the book of Genesis and somehow forgot that there are actually thirteen tribes of Israel? Was is John? Was it Jesus? WAS IT MOSES - the guy who wrote Genesis?
Jamie, you need to just stop and listen to me for a second. I KNOW that what I just quoted from the bible will not persuade you. Quoting the bible seems to never persuade anyone of anything on this website. But you need to step way back and just stop and rethink your doctrine on your own time and away from this website. Anyone who has to twist themselves into such knots that they will force a thirteenth tribe out of Israel in order to explain Paul's validity has made a serious error. Not that the addition of a thirteenth tribe is some sort of actual heresy. No one believes it. I'm talking about you. There's just no excuse for why anyone who calls themselves a bible believing Christian should allow their minds to be hijacked in such a manner. You should not be so dead set against some idea that even the bible itself, even direct quotes from your Lord Himself, is insufficient to persuade you! I don't understand what could have carried you to such a place but you really aught to take serious inventory of your doctrine and your theological attitudes - as should we all.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Umm, 2 Corinthians is not in the Gospels. 2 Corinthians was written by Paul the Apostle who received the Gospel of Grace from Jesus Himself by direct divine revelation. Of course Jesus would have used the word grace in relation to Paul.
Perhaps you don't understand that "the Gospels" refers to the first four books of the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. In which, you will not find Jesus having uttered the word "grace".
Nope! Not one single time did Jesus utter the word 'grace' during His Earthly ministry.
I've demonstrated that this is not so. Your simply stating otherwise doesn't make the clear teaching of Paul's epistles go away.
The Gospel of Circumcision was committed to Peter, the Gospel of Uncircumcision was committed to Paul.
1+1=2
The Gospel is also that redemptive work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf.
I think that it was the Catholics that called Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the Gospels, which is misleading. The Gospel is only found in Paul's epistles.
I agree - sort of.
You should avoid redefining common terms because of such reasons. It doesn't change the facts of reality. A rose is still a rose, regardless of what you call it. Making such distinctions is only helpful when making a very specific point to an audience who is on the same page that you're on and understands the context of the distinction being made. Otherwise, it only leads to confusion when we refuse to use terms within the common vernacular.
In this case, I stated the fact that there is no record of Jesus having ever uttered the word 'grace' during His Earthly ministry (i.e. in the Gospels). A citation from one of Paul's Epistles where Jesus uses the word 'grace' is basically the opposite of refuting the point. As I'm sure you'll agree.
Epoisses
New member
The gospel of the circumcision vs. the gospel of the uncircumcision was simply the one gospel going to two different mindsets i.e. Jew and Gentile. The Jews of the first century who believed in Jesus became Christians which utterly refutes your two party/ two gospel heresy. Your Jewish gospel of faith and works together is in reality the Judaizing heresy not the gospel.
Who do you think Peter and Paul worked for? Who supervised their work?
If so (which it isn't) then where is the need for a thirteenth Apostle? Why didn't Jesus give the Gospel of Grace that He gave to Paul by revelation to one of the twelve Apostles that He already had and had spent the last three years personally training and to whom He gave the great commission?
That's a stupid thing to say.
Then you believe the book of James is "Judaizing heresy"? (There are some who actually do!)
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Galatians 2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Galatians 2:11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
Resting in Him,
Clete
God! Of course.
"Reuben, you are my firstborn, Simeon and Levi are brothers, the scepter shall not depart from Judah, Zebulun shall dwell by the haven of the sea, Issachar is a strong donkey, Dan shall judge his people, Gad, a troop shall tramp upon him, bread from Asher shall be rich, Naphtali is a deer let loose, Joseph is a fruitful bough, Benjamin is a ravenous wolf. All these are the twelve tribes of Israel." (Genesis 49)
"And now your two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine. Your offspring whom you beget after them shall be yours, they will be called by the name of their brothers in their inheritance." (Genesis 48:5-6)
Jacob adopted Ephraim and Manasseh and said, "Let my name be named upon them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." (Genesis 48:16)
Ephraim and Manasseh were not born to Jacob, they were adopted by Jacob as his sons and received an inheritance in the land of Israel.
"by the border of Naphtali, from the east side to the west, one section for Manasseh, by the border of Manasseh, from the east side to the west, one section for Ephraim" (Ezekiel 48:4-5)
"The priests, the Levites — all the tribe of Levi — shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and His portion. Therefore they shall have no inheritance among their brethren; the LORD is their inheritance, as He said to them." (Deuteronomy 18:1-2)
Israel's tithes belonged to the Levites, "Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting." (Numbers 18:21)
Twelve tribes belonged to Jacob, but the Levites belonged to God. "Thus you shall separate the Levites from among the children of Israel, and the Levites shall be Mine." (Numbers 8:14)
Counting the Levites, there are thirteen tribes.
As the head of the church, Jesus supervised the work of Peter and Paul. And Jesus reported to the Father.
How could Jesus preach a "gospel" of grace when grace was not available until he was glorified? What would have been the point?
Who did Paul work for? Who supervised the apostles?