Abortion-a crying shame. (HOF thread)

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aikido7

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Pro-War: Are you suggesting there is no such thing as a Just war?
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Yes. Are you suggesting there is such a thing as a hypocritical Jesus?
Pro-death penalty: Requiring the life of a murderer for taking an innocent life, maintains the value of the innocent victims life. Anything less is not justice and diminishes the value of the victims life. Only the morally conflicted have trouble resolving this issue.
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Sorry--I thought you were blathering on about how life was sacred. That's my point and I wish you would address it. By assuming the mantle of the "morally superior" you can judge me "morally conflicted" all you want. But you still seem to be hedging on your "life is sacred" mantra. Life is either sacred or it isn't. You are having it both ways and looking neither.

Living as if life is really sacred is not conflicted. Saying that life is sacred only in certain little cases only justifies your own moral indolence. Which you are totally blinded by in any case.
Revenge Fantasies? Your inability to rightly divide the Word of God has brought you to the place where you willingly exchange the truth for a lie. You are to be pitied..
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I don't need your "pity pose," as much as you claim to "pity" me. I need your spiritual acumen. If you are at all honest you can dispense with your phoney pity and step up to the plate with a reasonable explanation of your spiritual discernment.

Do you really think it is possible or valid to try and "rightly divide" the Word of God? Isn't God's word indivisible?

How am I exchanging the truth for a lie? Isn't it true that life is sacred? Show me how, specifically, am I giving a lie to that truth?
And is it really "a lie" that we should love our enemies? That we should "judge not"?

The Book of Revelations was written by John of Patmos at a time when the early church was being persecuted by Nero and his pagans. Modern secular believers like yourself and others have re-cast the allegory as an excuse for punishment and revenge on all those who do not subscribe to the same divine ethnic cleansing fantasy that you do.

The revenge fantasies of the Book of Revelations give you an all-too-human reason to destroy your unconverted enemies, not to love them. It is a fantasy for death, destruction and a vengeful eye-for-an-eye ethic. Admit it--you have bent God to your will. The Bible is full of stories of what happens to those who try.

And yes, it has always been confusing to me; your flip reply shows you wish to leave your wacky dogma unclarified. I think that is because your sham of Jesus' vision cannot stand the glow of an illuminating examination anyway.
 
Granite

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"Sorry Granite, I keep forgetting that you have no knowledge of the Bible."

Art, I was in for over two decades, so quit assuming I don't know what I'm talking about. Cheap shots like this might make you feel better but they're insulting and distract from the discussion.

"God's people were to follow Gods rules relative to killing."

This included genocide: yes or no.

"Just wars were okay, self defense was okay, executing a death sentence for a pre-meditated murder was okay."

I'd agree with this but I don't see the justice in killing infants. This "original sin" nonsense is a Christian concoction, not a Hebrew notion.
 
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aikido7

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Life is sacred or it isn't. You can't have it both ways without being a hypocrite.

And Jesus had a lot to say about hypocrites.
 
Delmar

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Originally posted by aikido7

Life is sacred or it isn't. You can't have it both ways without being a hypocrite.

And Jesus had a lot to say about hypocrites.
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Innocent life is sacred, yes
 
Granite

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And babies with the misfortune of having pagan parents are evidently not innocent.

Whatever happened to not passing down sins of the fathers?
 
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LivingDeadDoll

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You know, I have never actually seen pictures like that before. I always turned away or chose not to look because I do not agree with it so why should I look at it. But....I don't even know what to say. I think I feel sick...:cry:
 
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aikido7

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"Innocent life" is sacred.

Well and good.

Are those killed in collateral damage to be deigned innocent? The Iraqi civillians? The World Trade Center and Pentagon deaths on 9-11? The unborn babies in dead victim's wombs? The fetuses that would have chosen to be gay had they been born?

What are you really saying?
 
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aikido7

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Hey, Doll--

I have always heard some conservatives repeat the mantra "All life is sacred."

Now we have deardelmar trying frantically to qualify that moral absolutism by amending it to "All innocent life is sacred."

My posted questions were asked in the spirit of getting deardelmar to actually think, or, at the very least, take some responsibility for his pronouncements. But I don't see that happening in Washington and I don't see it here. No surprise, really.

When confronted by their own contradictions, most fundamentalist/evangelical/Constantinian Christians hide in a maze of their own making that consists of relativistic qualifiers masquerading as solid theology.

In my opinion, they defile Christ.

postscript: I just amended/edited my previous post. Instead of "wombs" I had heretofore written "wounds." My liberal bad.
 
Delmar

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Originally posted by aikido7

Hey, Doll--

I have always heard some conservatives repeat the mantra "All life is sacred."

Now we have deardelmar trying frantically to qualify that moral absolutism by amending it to "All innocent life is sacred."

My posted questions were asked in the spirit of getting deardelmar to actually think, or, at the very least, take some responsibility for his pronouncements. But I don't see that happening in Washington and I don't see it here. No surprise, really.

When confronted by their own contradictions, most fundamentalist/evangelical/Constantinian Christians hide in a maze of their own making that consists of relativistic qualifiers masquerading as solid theology.

In my opinion, they defile Christ.

postscript: I just amended/edited my previous post. Instead of "wombs" I had heretofore written "wounds." My liberal bad.
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If accusing God of murder makes you a deep thinker no thank you! If claiming abortion is equal to God's judgment no thank you.
 
Granite

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Originally posted by deardelmar

If accusing God of murder makes you a deep thinker no thank you! If claiming abortion is equal to God's judgment no thank you.
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In other words, keep on the blinders and don't trouble me with the facts.
 
Granite

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Option 1: the babies and infants the Israelites killed were not guilty of something

Option 2: they were guilty of something, even though sins of the fathers are not supposed to be passed on to the sons

Option 3: they were killed for their own good
 
Imrahil

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Originally posted by granite1010

Option 1: the babies and infants the Israelites killed were not guilty of something

Option 2: they were guilty of something, even though sins of the fathers are not supposed to be passed on to the sons

Option 3: they were killed for their own good
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They were killed because God has the authority to bring His created creatures into the "second stage" of existence with Him for all eternity instead of having them live a life of rebellion and reject Him.
 
Granite

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Originally posted by Imrahil

They were killed because God has the authority to bring His created creatures into the "second stage" of existence with Him for all eternity instead of having them live a life of rebellion and reject Him.
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So infants and children were killed for their own good. Correct?
 
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LivingDeadDoll

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Originally posted by granite1010

So infants and children were killed for their own good. Correct?
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Well, if you are a believer in God and heaven then I guess you could look at it that way. I hadn't thought of it like that, but if I were overseas and my kids had to live a horrible life always scared of a huge bomb blowing them up, being forced into a religion, I guess I would see how they would be better off with Jesus in heaven.

Thank you Imrahil, I was abit confused what to think until that statement.

:)
 
Imrahil

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Originally posted by granite1010

So infants and children were killed for their own good. Correct?
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In a way. Primarily, the pagans were killed to give Israel the land. Israel was told to kill everyone because they were the chosen people and God didn't want pagan influences to turn them from God.
 
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