jeremysdemo
New member
more so, it validates the traditions outside of the Pauline school of influence.
The Gospel Of Thomas
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more so, it validates the traditions outside of the Pauline school of influence.
Lon
Well-known member
Logic question: If one is in error, wouldn't it have to be the one with more books?
Good to see you back in your own thread. If you don't want me here, ask me in a PM please, and thanks. :up:
Lon
Well-known member
Yep. Such admits that they support 'more' than they don't and admits that the GoT doesn't at times :up:
Lon
Well-known member
Yes, but you are over-the-top in your angst about it. Try PMing people.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: Read the FF Bruce link again. This is your opinion (different than a fact fyi).
Thanks
JosephR
New member
(40) Jesus said: A vine has been planted outside of the Father; and since it is not established, it will be plucked out with its roots (and) will perish.
this to me can speak about religion and ones own spirituality.
Gerd Ludemann writes: "These verses come close to Matt. 15.13. Verse 2a is not contained in Matt. 15.13, but can well be understood as an elaboration by Gnostics who are concerned with inner fortification. Similarly, the use of 'vine' instead of 'planting' is not a reason for dismissing a genetic relationship to the text of Matthew. A dependence of this logion on Matthew is virtually certain, for Matt. 15.13 derives from Matthean redaction."
this to me can speak about religion and ones own spirituality.
Gerd Ludemann writes: "These verses come close to Matt. 15.13. Verse 2a is not contained in Matt. 15.13, but can well be understood as an elaboration by Gnostics who are concerned with inner fortification. Similarly, the use of 'vine' instead of 'planting' is not a reason for dismissing a genetic relationship to the text of Matthew. A dependence of this logion on Matthew is virtually certain, for Matt. 15.13 derives from Matthean redaction."
JosephR
New member
Matt 15:12,13,14
12 Then came His disciples and said unto Him, “Knowest Thou that the Pharisees were offended after they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone; they are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”
12 Then came His disciples and said unto Him, “Knowest Thou that the Pharisees were offended after they heard this saying?”
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone; they are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”
Levolor
New member
Hello Joseph,
Those scriptures are nearly verbatim to that saying in the Gospel of Thomas.
In many ways I think this saying relates to what we see going on here every day... conflict and discord, which hides the keys of knowledge. "Keys of knowledge" as said in the GOT and in scripture it is written that the kingdom of heaven is shut up. Of course it is keys that open and lock up. Yes, God's people perish for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)
Matthew chapter 23 is known by many as the "Woe to the Scribes and Pharisees" chapter. So many indictments are made against the clergy and teachers... with Jesus calling them hypocrites. Of course, there is also some instruction at the beginning of the chapter for us too.
At the beginning of chapter 23, verses 1-3 we have: 23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
So... all this conflict here, and in the world... there is no one single place we can go to and know what is expected of us to "observe and do".
The Catholics would have us believe that they are. The Jews would have us believe that they are. All the different religions would have us believe that they are. I believe that there is only one true religion and that is the 'religion of love'. Nevertheless, for Christianity, and I have said this before in open forum, it is my opinion that the Orthodox have the purest teachings and worship.
We would all probably be Jewish, except for the little matter of a betrayal way back when. In Rome, only the Jews were exempt from persecution and death for not worshiping Rome's gods. The betrayal, and why we have a whole new religion separate from Judaism, is because the Jews began to not allow the followers of Christ to worship in the synagogue and proclaimed that those persons were not Jews.
What follows this betrayal is the Christians being burned at the stake, eaten by lions and etc.
Bless God for all the allowances for what
My goodness, I've written all this and have not yet gotten to the serpent/doves portion! I'll have to do this later as I will be gone all evening, and the rest of the week is full. I will no doubt, Lord willing, have small blocks of time to post here and there.
Praise God~for everything and anyway.
Hallelujah!
Perhaps, they keep bringing it up because, you don't
fully comprehend what they're telling you?
JosephR
New member
Ah so that little thing we call life is getting in our way I see
lolI think your post puts alot of context in perspective.. I will think on it more and try to come up with a good response.. all I have right now is,, That makes GREAT sense and I agree.. maybe later my response will be the same,,and just as good
Have a great night and be safe in your work and travels.
Levolor
New member
Levolor
New member
Ah so that little thing we call life is getting in our way I see
I think your post puts alot of context in perspective.. I will think on it more and try to come up with a good response.. all I have right now is,, That makes GREAT sense and I agree.. maybe later my response will be the same,,and just as good
Have a great night and be safe in your work and travels.
Thank you, Joseph. You too, and God bless you.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Wise as serpents.............
Wise as serpents.............
I'd also like to expand on the 'be wise as serpents' part, as I did not touch on that in my last commentary on this verse. Here the literal and symbolic term 'serpent'' is noteworthy, in the 'serpent' being a representation of wisdom. We see this further in the serpent being an emblem of healing when Moses made the bronze serpent by divine command, and lifted it upon a pole, healing all who gazed upon it. The bronze serpent (Nehushtan) was preserved and revered for centuries until it was destroyed by King Hezekiah.
There are some Gnostic schools who revere the Serpent, holding that he spoke the truth to man in the Garden of Eden story, for it is by true 'knowledge' that we come to know (discern) good and evil, and it is by this discerning wisdom that we progress, learn, evolve and ultimately ascend to higher realms of God-perfection and consciousness (back to the Pleroma). The 'Light-bringer' (Lucifer/Christ) awakens in us the knowledge of our origin, true Self, divine essence and destiny. Therefore the serpent comes offering man liberating 'gnosis',...to free him from the lower creator-God (the Demiurge and his angels), that he may worship the True God, the 'God' above all 'gods', the Most High.
~*~*~
- The Genesis Factor
- The Serpent of Salvation
~*~*~
Gnosis guards against the fallen deity powers (the archons) and false religious systems of bondage and entrapment. The true knowledge restores the original innocence of the soul, that carries the pure essence of divinity within it, so that the contrast of the 'serpent' and the 'dove' fits paradoxically and beautifully, whose meaning has value or the Savior would not have chosen such a metaphor.
View attachment 18737
pj
Wise as serpents.............
I'd also like to expand on the 'be wise as serpents' part, as I did not touch on that in my last commentary on this verse. Here the literal and symbolic term 'serpent'' is noteworthy, in the 'serpent' being a representation of wisdom. We see this further in the serpent being an emblem of healing when Moses made the bronze serpent by divine command, and lifted it upon a pole, healing all who gazed upon it. The bronze serpent (Nehushtan) was preserved and revered for centuries until it was destroyed by King Hezekiah.
There are some Gnostic schools who revere the Serpent, holding that he spoke the truth to man in the Garden of Eden story, for it is by true 'knowledge' that we come to know (discern) good and evil, and it is by this discerning wisdom that we progress, learn, evolve and ultimately ascend to higher realms of God-perfection and consciousness (back to the Pleroma). The 'Light-bringer' (Lucifer/Christ) awakens in us the knowledge of our origin, true Self, divine essence and destiny. Therefore the serpent comes offering man liberating 'gnosis',...to free him from the lower creator-God (the Demiurge and his angels), that he may worship the True God, the 'God' above all 'gods', the Most High.
~*~*~
- The Genesis Factor
- The Serpent of Salvation
~*~*~
Gnosis guards against the fallen deity powers (the archons) and false religious systems of bondage and entrapment. The true knowledge restores the original innocence of the soul, that carries the pure essence of divinity within it, so that the contrast of the 'serpent' and the 'dove' fits paradoxically and beautifully, whose meaning has value or the Savior would not have chosen such a metaphor.
View attachment 18737
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Re-cognition
Re-cognition
Yes,...when one realizes 'truth',...it is so.
In the soul's journey in space and time, it unfolds (via 'process') as a returning back to Source, back to our original home in Spirit, in the bosom of 'God' (divine nature). The duality-play is in the illusion of separation and a 'fall' from that original innocence and perfection and the 'gnosis' that restores it. Its not so much a 'restoration' than it is a 're-cognition' of the inherent knowing that is latent in 'being' itself and allowing that native principle or nature/identity to have pre-eminence.
pj
Re-cognition
Yes,...when one realizes 'truth',...it is so.
In the soul's journey in space and time, it unfolds (via 'process') as a returning back to Source, back to our original home in Spirit, in the bosom of 'God' (divine nature). The duality-play is in the illusion of separation and a 'fall' from that original innocence and perfection and the 'gnosis' that restores it. Its not so much a 'restoration' than it is a 're-cognition' of the inherent knowing that is latent in 'being' itself and allowing that native principle or nature/identity to have pre-eminence.
pj
staind.raindrop
New member
Yes, this statement is used in reference to the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven at Mt. 13:11, 12 and Mk. 4:21-25, and then again in reference to the parable of the talents at Mt 25:14-30. If you don't multiply your understanding by managing it properly, you will lose it.
It was very difficult for me to obtain this connection resulting in the interpretation of the parable, and even more difficult to retain it... but since I was determined and persistent about both, I did not lose it and now I am trying to multiply it by sharing it, hoping it will result in more lights of understanding turned on in the hearts of others.
I pray that it results in God revealing more secrets to me. Which brings me to that other mysterious Bible study we had that nite, Joe: the parable of the shrewd manager at Lk. 16:1-15. It interestingly relates to this topic. Verse 10 states that whoever can be trusted with little can also be trusted with much. I'm still unclear about what the rest translates into, tho.
staind.raindrop
New member
Actually, that's not exactly how it happened. So out of fear that I'm mismanaging this lesson, I'll attempt to be more accurate. This is also why I've waited for proper opportunities to share it, so that the reception will be optimal.
I wasn't even reading this parable with the intent to decipher it when the Holy Spirit guided me to make the connection between the parable and the verses interpreting what the talents are. I was reading various passages in the NT and got curious about what they were exactly but moved on to other passages when I couldn't figure it out. It was the Spirit that made me take notice of the connection while I was perusing thru the Gospels. I experienced the aha moment and shared it with Scott, but this was before TOL so I soon forgot all about it because I didn't have much spiritual interaction with people before I came here.
Once I became active on the site I was trying to think of things that I could share and sought to remember this piece of information that made me exclaim eureka inside, but it was lost. I had to do a fresh study to try and find it again. It was during this more in depth observation of the passage that I discovered it was because I didn't do enough with the understanding that I lost it and that the Spirit was giving it back to me because my motive in retrieving it was to use it to produce more like the parable instructs us to do.
I wasn't even reading this parable with the intent to decipher it when the Holy Spirit guided me to make the connection between the parable and the verses interpreting what the talents are. I was reading various passages in the NT and got curious about what they were exactly but moved on to other passages when I couldn't figure it out. It was the Spirit that made me take notice of the connection while I was perusing thru the Gospels. I experienced the aha moment and shared it with Scott, but this was before TOL so I soon forgot all about it because I didn't have much spiritual interaction with people before I came here.
Once I became active on the site I was trying to think of things that I could share and sought to remember this piece of information that made me exclaim eureka inside, but it was lost. I had to do a fresh study to try and find it again. It was during this more in depth observation of the passage that I discovered it was because I didn't do enough with the understanding that I lost it and that the Spirit was giving it back to me because my motive in retrieving it was to use it to produce more like the parable instructs us to do.