1 out of 3 is not so good. You went out of your way to try and find a perverted version (like HIV) to twist what it says. What is a "prototype"?
ECT Will there be a temple, to worship the one true God, in the future?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
1 out of 3 is not so good. You went out of your way to try and find a perverted version (like HIV) to twist what it says. What is a "prototype"?
dodge
New member
Nope, I personally read and trust the KJV just thought it would help you get out of the confused mode.
Prototype=The same as ALL of the Apostles which were witnesses to TRUTH !
Shalom. I believe you meant, your approach was flawed. How so? What do you say here?
Shalom.
Jacob
Shalom.
I do believe that God has wanted there to be a temple. The first temple was the one that Solomon built. The tabernacle was in the wilderness. Do you understand these basics? Do you understand about the tabernacle in the wilderness? It came first. The history of the tabernacle to the first temple is recorded in the Bible. Start with the Torah. Then you have the Prophets and the Writings. Then Matthew through Revelation.
Shalom.
Jacob
Act 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
False.
There is no 7 year tribulation period.
The one who confirmed the covenant for the first half of the week was Christ, and He will do so again,
LA
dodge
New member
Sure there is you just don't connect the dots.
Interplanner
Well-known member
It already took place; that is why the 6 accomplishments of Messiah are listed. He was 'cut off' doing so.
There is no reason why cutting a covenant would happen again; it was referring to the arrival of the new eternal one.
That final week seems meant to be seen as at least a generation--that final generation of Daniel's people that needed to get on board the new covenant or be ruined.
dodge
New member
IP, it is not about a new covenant it is about bringing Israel back in as in grafting them back into the true tree.
Interplanner
Well-known member
But you just legitimized the ethne, which Paul does not do. Individuals from any ethne can be grafted in--it is by faith that we "stand" (are grafted in). But God is done with whole ethnes at a time.
If you think the whole ethne Israel is going to have certain things done to it, you create a separate program and reality, and you have the problem of 'all.' The problem of 'all' is how do you have all Israel saved when millions have died in the past? Do 'all' of them reincarnate in Judea in 2020 or whenever? 'All' that ever lived? For ex., are the 600 or so killed by Mohammed in one of his raids in the 7th century to be brought back to life in 2020 (or whenever) as "Christian Jews" along with Anne Frank or Elie Weisel etc?
He does not mean all the ethne! That is the answer. He means the other Israel that is by faith, Jews and Gentiles, Eph 2.
The prototype is the pattern, the first one. The Bible just doesn't say what you want it to say. You are still the same Bible perverter you have always been.
dodge
New member
UN-like many I do NOT make the bible say what I want it to say to support a belief that fails and is not scriptural.
Interplanner
Well-known member
What does he want it to say?
dodge
New member
scripture supports that Israel was set aside until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled and then Israel will be brought back into God's fold. If you study Daniel and Revelation that is what scripture teaches.
11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
You did not address "prototype". First in a pattern. Not 578th, as StP likes to say. Paul is first.
Nope.
He meant all Physical Israel that is not just Physical Israel but is also Spiritual.
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
He points back to when Abraham took matters into his own hands, went in unto Hagar, Ishmael was born - of Abraham's flesh (of his own "him that willeth," and "him that runneth") and the LORD basically said nope - "In Isaac shall thy seed be called."
Genesis 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Afterwards, as had been the case throughout Israel's history, in the 1st Century, there were two Israel's after the flesh (physical seed of Abraham).
Unbelieving Israel, and Israel's Believing remnant.
Thus, Paul's hereinabove.
Case in point...
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Who were those of as many of His own who DID receive Him?
Israel's Believing Remnant - Israel that WAS Israel - those of Israel who were the Israel OF GOD.
John 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
In contrast to THEM was Unbelieving Israel...
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
And the issue once more is believing Moses.
Of BOTH these Israel's, the Apostle Paul would later write...
Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Continuing to describe that two-fold distinction (between BOTH Israels) he will add...
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Paul's point?
That God is not through with either of those two Israels as to His promises.
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Twist that how you want - said "all Israel" refers to those sons OF JACOB "in Isaac."
Those who like Isaac, are ALSO born OF THE SPIRIT.
Those born OF THE SPIRIT upon THEIR Believing.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
THAT was what the Lord had attempted to communicate unto Nicodemas, given the latter's doubt about Who He might be.
That just as he did not understand neither where the breath of the wind came from, nor where it went, but excepted it as fact, He should simply take Him at His Word as being the Christ Whom Moses had Prophesied would come from above - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, etc.
Well...
11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
How long?
How long, given the fact of...
Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
How long are they blind in part til He fulfills His Promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, concerning His plan and purpose in their Multiplied seed via their One Seed?
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
How long?
Til the fulness of that Gentile salvation He had planned to TEMPORARILY put in place through an Apostle of The Gentiles DURING Israel's fall.
But I am not really postint this to you.
You have proven for over two years now that you are in unbelief as to this.
Fact is that UNTIL THEN and to this very day, THIS SIDE OF THE RAISING UP OF AN APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES - if a Jew wants to get saved, he has to come to the Lord as a Gentile or Uncircumcision.
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Israel was never set aside.
The elect Israel became the early church and all who believe in Christ become joined to that elect people.
The verse only shows that Israel consisted of the elect and the unbelievers, but when the full number of believers from the nations come into the same olive tree, then all unbelievers of flesh Israel will be no more.
These verses are quotations of past prophecies, which were being fulfilled 2000 years ago.
Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
LA
dodge
New member
WRONG: the elect Israel was Jews NOT gentiles.
YOU might want to re-read it the true tree first was where Israel was and the gentiles were grafted into that tree after Israel was removed and that is the same tree they will be grafted back into.
Easy to see you have never studied Daniel and Revelation.
Because anyone that is blessed is blessed in Jesus.