Why would God need a hell?

[iouae]

Your dog gone right I do! In my understanding, bowing to God and confessing to him, equals conversion.

Well aren't we all glad you are not God. Your idea of conversion equals human trafficking.

 

[iouae]

Hi iouae,

We've gone over this concerning the issue of 'free will', and if individual free will is sovereign in determining one's destiny. ....
..... the divine will being all-supreme - this is good and well, but we do have that question of 'free will' again,...and if its possible that some could choose eternal destruction.

Hi Freelight

To me it is quite consistent that God wills man to have free will, and God wills man to choose Him with that God-given gift. But the two are not automatically compatible. For me its easy to see how God gets around this problem.

God offers eternal life to all. Of their own free will SOME choose Him. The rest God destroys. So God creates more people than needed to make up for those who refuse Him.

In the end. God still ends up with all having free will, and all voluntarily obeying and loving Him. Today's situation where we have demons and some people at odds with God is just a temporary aberration.

 

[Mickiel]

Oh... so you believe Christianity is actually pointless. Why do you even read the bible and talk to anyone about it. I talk to others about my faith because I think it's important. You know, evangelizing to save other peoples souls. I find it important to get people to repent of their sin. Sin leads to death. The whole point of Jesus is to save us from death.

Also why even read the bible? Your point of view makes everything pointless. You are essentially saying even if someone hates god or curses god will be saved. This is by no means the case. If you believe in the bible the nyou would take the verses speaking of death a lot more seriously. But you don't.

You can't save anyone's soul, you just been taught that you can. You can't lead anyone to repent, its God that leads people to repent, Rom. 2:4. Salvation does not come through humans. But I know this won't get through to you, your teaching has been too thick. I know it shocks you, but nothing really makes a difference. Rev. 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; he that is righteous , let him be righteous still. He that is holy, let them remain holy." In other words, it does not matter. What is to be will be. God has already determined our future. You may not like it, but we all make it.

 

[Mickiel]

You can't save anyone's soul, you just been taught that you can. You can't lead anyone to repent, its God that leads people to repent, Rom. 2:4. Salvation does not come through humans. But I know this won't get through to you, your teaching has been too thick. I know it shocks you, but nothing really makes a difference. Rev. 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; he that is righteous , let him be righteous still. He that is holy, let them remain holy." In other words, it does not matter. What is to be will be. God has already determined our future. You may not like it, but we all make it.

Here we have the bible, literally advising people to remain filthy and unjust. Why do you think that is?Because at this point it no longer matters. It no longer matters what men do. Or what they believe.

 

[Mickiel]

Why should God tolerate a Christian hell when his mercy endures forever, Ps. 136:16; this means the mercy of God is eternal, that totally cancels out this Christian place of garbage.

 

[Mickiel]

I just want to see the look on all the righteous faces when God forgives all unbelievers and those who reject him. When God shows his followers how he really is and they are not.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

God doesn't need a hell. People create their own hell because they refuse to believe in Jesus Christ(Yeshua Ha Mashiach), the only True and Living God who can, and will Save them from it.

 

[serpentdove]

...Ps. 136:16; this means the mercy of God is eternal, that totally cancels out this Christian place of garbage.

How many Christians have you treated like garbage? :Shimei: 1 Thess. 2:15; Rev. 12:13

"Because of his relationship to Israel (136:10–24)
He performed miracles to get his people out of Egypt (136:10–16).
He brought his people into Canaan (136:17–24): He struck down the foreign kings and gave the land to Israel." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ps 136:10–25). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

 

[serpentdove]

I just want to see the look on all the righteous faces when God forgives all unbelievers and those who reject him. When God shows his followers how he really is and they are not.

:yawn: Pr 14:12

 

[Mickiel]

Christians confuse fire in the bible to be their hell. They got hell fire on the mind. Jesus said in Luke 12:49 that he is come to send fire on the earth. But here he meant fire as " Division." He came to divide.

 

[serpentdove]

...Luke 12:49...[H]ere he meant fire as " Division."

"Luke 12:49...here he meant fire as " Division." 12:49 fire. I.e., judgment. See note on Matt. 3:11. For the connection between fire and judgment, see Is. 66:15; Joel 2:30; Amos 1:7, 10–14; 2:2, 5; Mal. 3:2, 5; 1 Cor. 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:7, 8." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1540). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

 

[Mickiel]

All who live, live unto God, Luke 20:38; you can't live in some Christian hell and be living unto God.

 

[Crucible]

The lacking belief of Hell, and preaching of it thereof, is a large reason why Christianity has become so lukewarm in a lot of society.

People barely live up to the standards of Christianity even in the most conservative and traditional of circles. We live in a world that has exponentially more vanity and distraction, abominable liberties, and 'easy' belief of God that Christianity is merely a vestige of what it was just a couple hundred years ago.

Hell deniers are products of this age , where all things God are adulterated with worldly ideology.

 

[serpentdove]

All who live, live unto God, Luke 20:38; you can't live in some Christian hell and be living unto God.

You die a second death (Re 20:14). :burnlib:

"There is a resurrection (20:37–40)." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Lk 20:34–40). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

 

[Mickiel]

A person can hear Jesus himself preach, and reject Christ, and Jesus will not judge that person, he will save them. Now of course, me saying this the Christians will not believe it, so listen to Jesus say it in John 12:47, " If any man hear my words and believe not, I judge him not. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world!"

They still won't believe Christ.

 

[serpentdove]

The lacking belief of Hell, and preaching of it thereof, is a large reason why Christianity has become so lukewarm in a lot of society.

People barely live up to the standards of Christianity even in the most conservative and traditional of circles. We live in a world that has exponentially more vanity and distraction, abominable liberties, and 'easy' belief of God that Christianity is merely a vestige of what it was just a couple hundred years ago.

Hell deniers are products of this age , where all things God are adulterated with worldly ideology.

They think God's a big ol' softie who will let them in at the last minute (Hab 2:18).

 

[Mickiel]

People are receiving first hand hell indoctrination from Christianity. All their new converts are soaked in the misery doctrine. Notice Jesus in Matt. 23:15, " Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you compass sea and land to make one convert, and when he is made, you make them twice the child of hell than you are!" Hell is being passed from generation to generation, deception being delivered like a Trojan horse.

 

[freelight]

Accounting, and the issue of 'qualification'......................

Accounting, and the issue of 'qualification'......................

Here we have the bible, literally advising people to remain filthy and unjust. Why do you think that is?Because at this point it no longer matters. It no longer matters what men do. Or what they believe.

RE: Revelation 22:11

I'm not sure the passage implies that it does not matter what one does, since the same book claims souls being "judged according to their works" and that there is 'freedom of choice'...so at a certain point of reckoning or judgment,....everyone's work is evident, their condition of soul is brought into the light. Now whether souls who are wicked at any particular time of reckoning are granted the opportunity of repentance and will return to God is open to speculation, as some souls who reach a point of no return, may be destroyed (die; the 'second death'). If you assume all souls will ultimately be converted, then they will no longer be filthy or unjust, but become partakers of the divine nature (be given immortality). At a time of accounting, all souls are judged by their deeds (thoughts, words, actions, character, etc.)

Lets see the verse in context in Rev. ch. 22 -

10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[e] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments (or 'wash their robes') that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

You will note above, each are judged according to their work, and 'freedom of choice' is given for those who will be counted among those who have qualified themselves to enter into the heavenly city, while outside are those who practice evil. How do you account for these passage in their appropriate context?

 

[Mickiel]

RE:

You will note above, each are judged according to their work, and 'freedom of choice' is given for those who will be counted among those who have qualified themselves to enter into the heavenly city, while outside are those who practice evil. How do you account for these passage in their appropriate context?

Freedom of choice is not given in any of those verses; show me where it states that.

And in my view, its impossible to " Qualify yourself for the Kingdom."

 

[Mickiel]

People think God has no power to save a disobedient unbelieving mind; how wrong they are, God " Quickens" all things, 1 Tim. 6:13. That means God can " Arouse" any unbelieving mind and stimulate it to belief.