Actually, for Israel tithes were obligatory. However, for the Body of Christ they are not, because tithing was part of the law, and Christians are no longer under any law.
Why i'm a socialist...
- Thread starter This Charming Manc
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The "Law" never had anything to do with non-Jews. Yet the inclusion of obligatory tithes in the Hebrew Bible does say something about how God views economics. It is hard to claim that God is anti-taxes, given the tithes.
Not the laws specific to Israel, no.
However, even the Gentile has a law written on his heart. Even the Gentiles have public laws based on the law written in their heart.
Christians are the ones who don't (or shouldn't) have anything to do with the law, because we are no longer under the law, but under grace.
Actually, it doesn't.
The law given to Israel for tithing says that one must, without fail, tithe 10%.
However, God says that a government that taxes it's people 10% or more is tyrannical.
Yet today, our ever increasingly socialistic government taxes it's citizens around 50%. Again, for reference, 10% tax is tyranical.
No one here, as far as I'm aware, has claimed yet that god is anti-taxes, but it has nothing to do with tithes.
God doesn't need the money, because everything is His anyways. The tithing laws for Israel were meant to teach them a lesson, as were all the other laws, like keeping the sabbath.
Governments have to be funded somehow, and the only thing that God allowed to be taxed is increase, or income.
So because 10% is tyrannical, and only a person's income can be taxed, the best option is to not proceed towards socialism, but free market capitalism, which allows growth of the nation.
Remember how I said that currently America's citizens are being taxed about 50%? That's your average joe, by the way. Now imagine if everyone's income was effectively doubled.
We'd see an economic boom the likes of which have never been seen before.
The way to get that is by first getting rid of all the socialist programs our government runs, shrink the government to about a 10th of it's size, and set the national tax to a flat 5% income tax, and after that, if the government can acquire enough funds to sustain itself for 7 years, it can be dropped to 1%.
Source please.
Somebody did- that is why I posted on this subject.
Do you really think you can support minimal government services on 5% or even 1%? What do you consider the minimum necessary government services?
Now it came to pass when Samuel was old that he made his sons judges over Israel.The name of his firstborn was Joel, and the name of his second, Abijah; they were judges in Beersheba.But his sons did not walk in his ways; they turned aside after dishonest gain, took bribes, and perverted justice.Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah,and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.”But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord.And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt, even to this day—with which they have forsaken Me and served other gods—so they are doing to you also.Now therefore, heed their voice. However, you shall solemnly forewarn them, and show them the behavior of the king who will reign over them.”So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who asked him for a king.And he said, “This will be the behavior of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them for his own chariots and to be his horsemen, and some will run before his chariots.He will appoint captains over his thousands and captains over his fifties, will set some to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and some to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.He will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.And he will take the best of your fields, your vineyards, and your olive groves, and give them to his servants.He will take a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and give it to his officers and servants.And he will take your male servants, your female servants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and put them to his work.He will take a tenth of your sheep. And you will be his servants.And you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, and the Lord will not hear you in that day.”Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, “No, but we will have a king over us,that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.”And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the Lord.So the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed their voice, and make them a king.” And Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Every man go to his city.” - 1 Samuel 8:1-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Samuel8:1-22&version=NKJV
I'm sorry, I must have missed it.
God gave the government only three roles.
1. Protecting the God given rights of every person within its jurisdiction
2. Providing the public infrastructure needed to exercise and uphold those rights
3. As achievable, protecting others
The God-given rights of every person, including foreigners, are as follows:
1. To life and liberty
2. To worship
3. To free speech
4. To purchase and use property
5. To purchase, own, and carry individual defensive weapons including firearms
6. To protect the innocent
7. To corporally punish his children
8. To due process of law
9. To fail
No person has a right to food, water, clothing, shelter, energy, healthcare, or education.
Excepting for emergency relief, from natural disasters and short term life-or-death crises, and for government employees only as mission critical, the government must not give or subsidize such resources to anyone, nor can the government compel charitable giving.
Interesting. You think this warning about what the king would do sets a concrete limit on taxation. You are aware that after all of this discussion, God did support the kings - the very ones that he warned about?
You say these are "god-given". On what basis do you make that claim?
And here we run into that tithe for the poor again....
Tithes are obligatory? To whom? Government or God? Taxes are obligatory to whom? Government or God?
I'm not trying to match anything. It's you that is the one doing that. I have simply shown how God has always dealt with humanity.
So you think that tithes, offerings, the Feasts, etc... were government-imposed behavior and had government-imposed sanctions against them? Really? Show this from scripture. Show how the Israelite/Jewish government imposed God-given sanctions for non-observance of these things. Show these God-ordained civil punishments from scripture.
That all these things were between the people and God is very plain from the book of Deuteronomy. Read it. Only God ever dished out punishments for violating these things. Israel's corrupt kings kept none of these things. Israel's good kings kept these rules. Both good and bad kings influenced the people to follow them in the direction they wanted to go. God punished the disobedience and rewarded the obedience. The OT is full of this history. There is no scriptural support for your position at all.