ECT Why I Stopped Thinking Acts 3:19-21 Were Futurist

Interplanner

New member
First, I mean to say that futurist would be a very distant future. There simply is no conception like that in the NT. Almost all references to the 2nd coming in judgement, resulting in a NHNE were that it would be right after the Destruction of Jerusalem, and even that is not necessarily set
to be 40 years later, no matter what. It could have happened very early in that generation (30-70).

If you go by Daniel 9 on that question, you have an additional reason, but I'm referring to the amount of tension between Israel and Rome and pressure from the Sabeans to get Israel on its side to puncture the Roman hold of the eastern shore of the Roman "lake." Rebels were already active and were opportunistic.

2, the refreshing times were underway. The prophesied outpouring of the Spirit, the outreach, the language event, the dreams and visions, the signs and wonders, the fellowship of the Christians, the great grace, and on and on.

3, then there is the expression the restoration of all things. It is that which has been capitalized upon by the distant futurists. In order to make it an honest offer, they think that he was offering a restored Israel in the old covenant sense right then. I used to think so to.

I stopped thinking that way when I realized how wide all things was. When the prophetic vision of Isaiah refers to all suffering, war, death, why would this suddenly mean a temple and worship system in a micro country?

I stopped thinking that way when I realized the overlay of the last 3 verses of the preaching, 24. They are very definitely in them; they are underway. It was time for all nations on earth to be blessed through them. There is a huge amount of confusion if we think the activity here was to terminate in blessing FOR Israel, instead of a conveyance THROUGH Israel. Because, yes, salvation is through Israel, that is, Christ, Jn 4. But finally and conclusively, the first...and then... formula is right there in 26. He did bless Israel first, but not terminally. It was to bless them so they would be a 'light in His light' to the nations.

All I had to do was realize how short the timeframe was in their (the apostles) thinking about the 2nd coming. As in so many passages like I Cor 1:7, ch 7 on the shortness of time, 'marana Tha', the Thess passages (where he had to clear up that it had NOT happened yet!), Rom 16 'he will soon crush Satan' etc.

So to summarize: it is an announcement that the prophetic mission to the whole world is now here, and announced to Israel, to get them on board. This is why the 'kingdom offer' is totally absent beyond this point, is not a discussion, is no where else in Acts. If Acts 8 is any indication, the nation/ethne is in for a rough time, while the mission will flourish.

What is in Acts is 13's and 26's complete statements that this is the destiny of Israel, including a lament by Paul that Israel seeks its old covenant restored day and night at services at the temple, missing the fact that the new age had arrived in the resurrection of Christ and the mission of spreading the Gospel.

For details footnotes of this, showing that Peter and Paul were on the same page all through, see the middle of Rom 10 through the end of 11. Even with such prodding to Israel to be the great host of preachers of Isaiah, he got very few.

I have dealt with the poorly done workups of 11:25 and of Heb 8 many times in other threads. (Those two were the other proof texts mentioned in a recent blast at me about the restored kingdom offer).
 

Danoh

New member
In short, IP; you stopped thinking :chuckle:

Reminds me of that wise old piece of advice you apparantly have never heard of...

"Before one sits down to think on a thing; he would do well to first sit down to think on just where he is going to think on it from..."
 

TweetyBird

New member
What if Peter is referring to being refreshed in the Lord? The joy of the Lord in our hearts because of His salvation. I find this is true very often, even though I have been saved for decades, because the Lord's presence is within - He has made His home in us. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit within would bring living water flowing within. It makes me think of Psalm 23 - His peace and joy refreshes me. Just my 2cents worth :cattyfan:
 
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Danoh

New member
What if Paul is referring to being refreshed in the Lord? The joy of the Lord in our hearts because of His salvation. I find this is true very often, even though I have been saved for decades, because the Lord's presence is within - He has made His home in us. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit within would bring living water flowing within. It makes me think of Psalm 23 - His peace and joy refreshes me. Just my 2cents worth :cattyfan:

One, "What if" is no way to attempt to arrive at the intended sense of any word, phrase, or passage.

Two, neither is personal experiences - the very error of all who go by "this and that happened to me..."

Rather, three - believe the passage as written.

Four; compare verse with verse towards allowing other passages to shed their light on the word, phrase, or passage you seek to understand the intended sense of.

Five; rightly divide, or lay out the Word aright - that is; both as to similaraities AND distinctions between things - towards ensuring you are actually comparing passages that go together (in contrast to passages that only appear to go together).

In Acts 26, Paul is asserting he was preaching the very resurrection of Christ the Law and the Prophets did say should come.

He is NOT asserting what IP and others wrongly read into the passages there, in Acts 26.

Where God is concerned as to Israel; the resurrection of Christ is the very means of bringing to pass one day Isaiah 2:1-5, thus; the Twelve's VALID question in Acts 1:6.

Prophecy (Israel and its' destiny) and Mystery (the Body and its" destiny) are each made possible via the resurrection of Christ.
 

TweetyBird

New member
One, "What if" is no way to attempt to arrive at the intended sense of any word, phrase, or passage.

Two, neither is personal experiences - the very error of all who go by "this and that happened to me..."

Rather, three - believe the passage as written.

Four; compare verse with verse towards allowing other passages to shed their light on the word, phrase, or passage you seek to understand the intended sense of.

Five; rightly divide, or lay out the Word aright - that is; both as to similaraities AND distinctions between things - towards ensuring you are actually comparing passages that go together (in contrast to passages that only appear to go together).

In Acts 26, Paul is asserting he was preaching the very resurrection of Christ the Law and the Prophets did say should come.

He is NOT asserting what IP and others wrongly read into the passages there, in Acts 26.

Where God is concerned as to Israel; the resurrection of Christ is the very means of bringing to pass one day Isaiah 2:1-5, thus; the Twelve's VALID question in Acts 1:6.

Prophecy (Israel and its' destiny) and Mystery (the Body and its" destiny) are each made possible via the resurrection of Christ.

"What if" is just a common courtesy to express one's opinion on what that verse means to them. I compared it to two verses, but certainly know of many others. Conversion is referring to the individual. There is no such thing as "group salvation". Each person must come to Jesus for forgiveness. Therefore, I glean from the verse that it is a personal refreshing from the Lord based on the joy one experiences from salvation. I am not dogmatic on it - just how I view the text and am blessed by it. If you want to see it from a different perspective that is your choice.

There are no other verses that use G403 [refreshing].

G403
ἀνάψυξις
anapsuxis
an-aps'-ook-sis
a cooling, refreshing
 

Danoh

New member
The OT interpreting the NT...and vice versa...

Joshua 4:9 And Joshua set up twelve stones in the midst of Jordan, in the place where the feet of the priests which bare the ark of the covenant stood: and they are there unto this day.

Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Not the "your choice" that is personal preference, rather; the right choice that is the personal preference of right verse...with right verse..
 

DAN P

New member
First, I mean to say that futurist would be a very distant future. There simply is no conception like that in the NT. Almost all references to the 2nd coming in judgement, resulting in a NHNE were that it would be right after the Destruction of Jerusalem, and even that is not necessarily set
to be 40 years later, no matter what. It could have happened very early in that generation (30-70).

If you go by Daniel 9 on that question, you have an additional reason, but I'm referring to the amount of tension between Israel and Rome and pressure from the Sabeans to get Israel on its side to puncture the Roman hold of the eastern shore of the Roman "lake." Rebels were already active and were opportunistic.

2, the refreshing times were underway. The prophesied outpouring of the Spirit, the outreach, the language event, the dreams and visions, the signs and wonders, the fellowship of the Christians, the great grace, and on and on.

3, then there is the expression the restoration of all things. It is that which has been capitalized upon by the distant futurists. In order to make it an honest offer, they think that he was offering a restored Israel in the old covenant sense right then. I used to think so to.

I stopped thinking that way when I realized how wide all things was. When the prophetic vision of Isaiah refers to all suffering, war, death, why would this suddenly mean a temple and worship system in a micro country?

I stopped thinking that way when I realized the overlay of the last 3 verses of the preaching, 24. They are very definitely in them; they are underway. It was time for all nations on earth to be blessed through them. There is a huge amount of confusion if we think the activity here was to terminate in blessing FOR Israel, instead of a conveyance THROUGH Israel. Because, yes, salvation is through Israel, that is, Christ, Jn 4. But finally and conclusively, the first...and then... formula is right there in 26. He did bless Israel first, but not terminally. It was to bless them so they would be a 'light in His light' to the nations.

All I had to do was realize how short the timeframe was in their (the apostles) thinking about the 2nd coming. As in so many passages like I Cor 1:7, ch 7 on the shortness of time, 'marana Tha', the Thess passages (where he had to clear up that it had NOT happened yet!), Rom 16 'he will soon crush Satan' etc.

So to summarize: it is an announcement that the prophetic mission to the whole world is now here, and announced to Israel, to get them on board. This is why the 'kingdom offer' is totally absent beyond this point, is not a discussion, is no where else in Acts. If Acts 8 is any indication, the nation/ethne is in for a rough time, while the mission will flourish.

What is in Acts is 13's and 26's complete statements that this is the destiny of Israel, including a lament by Paul that Israel seeks its old covenant restored day and night at services at the temple, missing the fact that the new age had arrived in the resurrection of Christ and the mission of spreading the Gospel.

For details footnotes of this, showing that Peter and Paul were on the same page all through, see the middle of Rom 10 through the end of 11. Even with such prodding to Israel to be the great host of preachers of Isaiah, he got very few.

I have dealt with the poorly done workups of 11:25 and of Heb 8 many times in other threads. (Those two were the other proof texts mentioned in a recent blast at me about the restored kingdom offer).


Hi and there are many GAPS in the bible :

#1 , The Gap between Gen1 and verse 2 !!

#2 , Another Gap is in Luke 4:19 and verse 20 being complete during the Great Tribulation !!

#3 , The setting aside of Israel and Luke 13:6-9 !!

#4 , And Isa 6:8-13 !

#5 And with the setting aside of Israel in Acts 28:28 BEGINS THE Revelation of the MYSTERY in Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

#6 There is a GAP between the FIRST DEATH and the SECOND DEATH in Rev 20:5-6 !!~

In Acts 3:38 says : SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT " you know is in the Future Tense and you know I am right !!

dan p
 

TweetyBird

New member
Hi and there are many GAPS in the bible :

#1 , The Gap between Gen1 and verse 2 !!

#2 , Another Gap is in Luke 4:19 and verse 20 being complete during the Great Tribulation !!

#3 , The setting aside of Israel and Luke 13:6-9 !!

#4 , And Isa 6:8-13 !

#5 And with the setting aside of Israel in Acts 28:28 BEGINS THE Revelation of the MYSTERY in Rom 16:25 and 26 !!

#6 There is a GAP between the FIRST DEATH and the SECOND DEATH in Rev 20:5-6 !!~

In Acts 3:38 says : SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT " you know is in the Future Tense and you know I am right !!

dan p

That makes about as much sense as the Creation Gap Theory.
 

DAN P

New member
That makes about as much sense as the Creation Gap Theory.


Hi and why not start a OP on the Gap of GEN 1and 2 ?

Yes you can , since you called it a Theory , so you must know the the IN and OUT are , RIGHT ??

You did not answer post #8 , so will you be good enough to answer GAP THEORY ??

dan p
 

Interplanner

New member
"What if" is just a common courtesy to express one's opinion on what that verse means to them. I compared it to two verses, but certainly know of many others. Conversion is referring to the individual. There is no such thing as "group salvation". Each person must come to Jesus for forgiveness. Therefore, I glean from the verse that it is a personal refreshing from the Lord based on the joy one experiences from salvation. I am not dogmatic on it - just how I view the text and am blessed by it. If you want to see it from a different perspective that is your choice.

There are no other verses that use G403 [refreshing].

G403
ἀνάψυξις
anapsuxis
an-aps'-ook-sis
a cooling, refreshing


The collective effect of the individuals would be the refreshing, but that's the effect; the cause was the arrival of the Gospel and Spirit.
 

Interplanner

New member
The OT interpreting the NT...and vice versa...

Joshua 4:9 And Joshua set up twelve stones in the midst of Jordan, in the place where the feet of the priests which bare the ark of the covenant stood: and they are there unto this day.

Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Not the "your choice" that is personal preference, rather; the right choice that is the personal preference of right verse...with right verse..


??? wow, the word stones is in both passages. Does that in itself make a magical connection?
 

Danoh

New member
??? wow, the word stones is in both passages. Does that in itself make a magical connection?

Unfamiliar with OT on that, one will not only not understand the historical; but the spiritual significance of John's mention of those stones.

At the same time, looking back to the OT from within John's Daniel 9 context (again the OT PROPERLY shedding light on the NT) one can better understand that Joshua's words regarding what had been fulfilled in his day, had not been all there was to fulfill.

The NT, in turn, PROPERLY shedding light on the OT.

And vice versa...

Matthew 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

A reed shaken in the wind?

What meaneth this?

Israel's physical form of spiritual identification through sprinkling.

Numbers 19:18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:

Hyssop being a type of reed one sprinkles a liquid onto something with.

Leviticus 14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: 14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.

The history, the anthropology, the spiritual significance...its all there towards one's RIGHT understanding.

Your problem?

Years and years reading "about" in your endless books "about."

Thus your ignorant replies.

You think you know the Scripture.

Because you have been reading "about" it and then reading into it, for many years now.

The simplest of things pointed out to you not only ever throwing you, but ever exposing your endless books based "wisdom" or "reasoning" for what it actually is - the traditions of men in their same parroting of...the traditions of men.

You ARE one confused brother.
 

TweetyBird

New member
Hi and why not start a OP on the Gap of GEN 1and 2 ?

Yes you can , since you called it a Theory , so you must know the the IN and OUT are , RIGHT ??

You did not answer post #8 , so will you be good enough to answer GAP THEORY ??

dan p

I did answer you, I said that what you wrote makes about as much sense as the Creation Gap Theory.
 
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