ECT Who is responsible for "dying to self"?

[lifeisgood]

Jesus himself said, that they had the laws of Moses, yet they still go about to kill him. In other words, it was wrong to kill him! He also said that they were doing the works of the father the devil, who had always been a liar and a murderer from the beginning. He asked God to forgive them, why? Why ask God to forgive them if out was so wondrous an act?

Because Christ Jesus, in spite of their hate toward Him, loved them (and He loves us so much also).

Christ Jesus willingly gave up His earthly life for the sins of His own (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Christ Jesus paid the penalty for the sins that we commit in our ignorance (and even the ones we’ve committed deliberately).

On the Cross of Calvary Christ Jesus was providing forgiveness for all those who would ever believe in Him (Matthew 20:28).

He also made a reality of His own preaching. He had said, “Love your enemies” (Matthew 5:44); now He was proving it.

 

[lifeisgood]

We are saved by the blood of Christ on the doorposts of our hearts, which is the life of Christ in our hearts. But you can't see that Jesus' life saves only that his death on the cross saves. Yet you can't show me anywhere in the scriptures where it says what you say I must believe in, that we are saved by having faith in the finished legal work of Christ on the cross, or that we won't receive the spirit of God unless we believe in the finished legal work on the cross. You keep telling me that I must believe this, but where does it say it in the Bible?

What? You do not believe God?
God Himself said, ‘When I see the BLOOD….’ I will pass over you (save you).

Without the shedding of BLOOD there is NO remission of sin.

You cannot separate Christ Jesus from His finished legal work wrought on the Cross of Calvary.

You have rejected all holy writ PROVING that Christ Jesus' BLOOD is what saves.

 

[lifeisgood]

We are saved by the grace of God through faith, faith in God, and faith in our lord Jesus Christ. And we are saved from our past sins when we truly repent, and then if we continue obey God, and the commandments of Jesus, we receive the spirit of truth who shows us what's right and wrong and guides us and teaches us in our heart all things and helps us to stop sinning daily and we have a choice, to listen to our conscience and do what right before God, or deny him!

You cannot receive the help of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit does not see the BLOOD of Christ Jesus’ on the doorposts of your heart.

Christ Jesus is the source.
The Cross of Calvary is the means.

The Holy Spirit can only work legally on your behalf within the confines of Christ Jesus’ finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary and I ain’t talking about the wooden beam, but what there Christ Jesus wrought.

The Cross of Calvary was a legal work.

 

[Cross Reference]

Because I repeat to you what you have said? You call that harassment?

I do not harass people, marhig. I converse with people back and forth.

You can put me on ignore and you will not see any of what I say. It is that simple.



I have responded to this question already and you rejected my answer.



Show me Scripture teaching that Christ Jesus saved humankind because He came into this world.



ABSOLUTELY was the BLOOD that saved. God said so, 'When I see the BLOOD....' I will pass over you (save you).

ABSOLUTELY it is the BLOOD that saves. God said so, 'When I see the BLOOD....' I will pass over you (save you).

God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today, and eternally.

Had you been in OT times and Moses said to you, marhig, get a lamb, slaugther it, take the blood, get some hissop, soak it with the lamb's blood, and put the blood over the doorposts of your house and God will pass over you, and not kill you, what would you have done, marhig? Would you have entered into an argument with Moses about the blood? By your modern responses, I would say that you would have entered into an argument with Moses about the blood.

Had you rejected the blood then, you would have been killed - no question about it, for God said, 'When I see the BLOOD...' I will pass over you (save you).

If you reject the blood today, you will be killed - no question about it, because God said, 'When I see the BLOOD...' I will pass over you (save you).

You can only have the Holy Spirit within you AFTER you come through the BLOOD.

God does not see the BLOOD, God will NOT come in for He said 'When I see the BLOOD...' I will pass over you (save you).

I don't believe she is arguing this with you as your continuing correction would imply.

The Blood of Jesus made peace with God on behalf of mankind [in general]. Justification was 'made alive' for the righteous saints already dead. He set them free from the grave.

Your reference examples to the OT blood on the posts, shows it was a very legal thing. And for the NT individual to receive the account of it by faith is no less legal. It is part and parcel of the way salvation is/was accomplished. That translates to understanding how reconciliation with God was made possible thus bringing peace to one's heart by believing for it:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house." Acts 16:30-32 (KJV) I believe we can assume Paul explained what the issues were re the shed blood of Jesus.

Having said all that, I don't believe Marig is in opposition that knowledge.

Can you make a distinction between being saved and being born again?

 

[lifeisgood]

You believe what you will, but if you believe that you don't have to do anything and that you are going to heaven by just saying with your mouth that you believe, then you're very much mistaken. If we love God, then we will become doers of the word, walk the walk, and partake in the sufferings of Christ to glorify God and bring the love of Christ to those we meet with the hope of them knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent!

I am getting to Heaven NOT because of ANYTHING I do, but BECAUSE of what I BELIEVE.
I BELIEVE that Christ Jesus and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary SAVES ME.

Now, that does not mean that after He saves me, He will not direct me to the good works He has ordained for me.

I am NOT saved because I DO anything.
I am SAVED because Christ Jesus DID EVERYTHING.

Either Christ Jesus did everything that needed to be done to save humankind or He did not.

When a person says that he/she has to add anything to the already finished legal work of the Cross of Calvary, that person is saying that he/she does not believe that what Christ Jesus there did was enough and that person has to help Christ Jesus to save him/her, which is totally foolish.

You do realize the Christ Jesus could have said, ‘No’, to the Cross of Calvary, don’t you?

It is wondrous that Christ Jesus could have said, ‘No, I am not going to the Cross,’ however, He volitionally decided to go through with it to save such a one as me.

Eternity will not be enough to say, 'Thank You, Lord.'

 

[lifeisgood]

Having said all that, I don't believe Marig is in opposition that knowledge.

Agreed, she simply rejects the blood.

 

[serpentdove]

Who is responsible for "dying to self"?

Eve is (Ge 3:12).

 

[lifeisgood]

Jesus said no such thing in reply to Nicodemus question. And when Jesus spoke He was addressing ALL people in general.

Yes, Jesus did say such thing to Nicodemus including the ones that were there and the ones who came with Nicodemus.

I take it that Jesus was born dead? Obviously, no. So what is the difference?

Please, don't ever put Jesus on the same plain as any other man.

Nicodemus was 'dead' spiritually, even though Nicodemus was a teacher.

Jesus merely explained what Nicodemus should have known that, had he known/understood from the scriptures, he would have not been admonished by Jesus. Such was the way of the law that such info was hidden from those who believed the law was all there was.

Yes, Nicodemus should have known and did not.

Nicodemus was a righteous man and as with others of faith, had to wait in their faith believing for the redeemer to come. "Are you the One", Jesus? . . was that which was in his "question". What he was there for was to further himself in his knowledge of intimacy with God.

Yes, I believe that Nicodemus went to talk to Jesus because he wanted more than what he had (also the ones who went with him), and when Jesus said to him/them that he/them had to be born again, he/them was/were totally confused, for he asked, in his/their name, (paraphrasing now), 'What? I have to get back into my mom's womb? How in the world can I do that Jesus? Because I have faith in God and if that is what God wants me to do, I'll do. Tell me Jesus, how do I do that?' Jesus' response is revealing (again paraphrasing), 'You are set over the people knowing the Scriptures and you do not understand what I have just said to you that you have to be born again?'

Nicodemus was 'dead' and so were the ones there. They understood later and some were born again.

 

[lifeisgood]

Can you make a distinction between being saved and being born again?

For me 'being born again' and 'being saved' are two viewpoints toward the same event, the transformation of a sinner into a follower of Christ Jesus.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, Jesus did say such thing to Nicodemus including the ones that were there and the ones who came with Nicodemus.



Please, don't ever put Jesus on the same plain as any other man.

Nicodemus was 'dead' spiritually, even though Nicodemus was a teacher.

Yes, Nicodemus should have known and did not.



Yes, I believe that Nicodemus went to talk to Jesus because he wanted more than what he had (also the ones who went with him), and when Jesus said to him/them that he/them had to be born again, he/them was/were totally confused, for he asked, in his/their name, (paraphrasing now), 'What? I have to get back into my mom's womb? How in the world can I do that Jesus? Because I have faith in God and if that is what God wants me to do, I'll do. Tell me Jesus, how do I do that?' Jesus' response is revealing (again paraphrasing), 'You are set over the people knowing the Scriptures and you do not understand what I have just said to you that you have to be born again?'

Nicodemus was 'dead' and so were the ones there. They understood later and some were born again.

No. Because of Adam's transgression, the relationship of All mankind with God, spiritually speaking, was broken. That does not mean they were "spiritually dead" of themselves but limited to that of doing good works for His favor, salvation being but a promise..

God was also limited because He had to function from an outsiders position that continually looked for righteousness from man that he might find favor. So the scene is that of our soul now having access to the throne of God by redemption, that was blocked by the penalty of Adam's transgression, is now made open by our soul given over to Christ Jesus. . . and which He also now has access.

Soul of man <<<>>> man's spirit . . . Adam's BLOCKAGE . . . <<<Holy Spirit,<<<>>> Throne of God.

. .. . Problem solved by Jesus Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

You cannot receive the help of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit does not see the BLOOD of Christ Jesus’ on the doorposts of your heart.

Christ Jesus is the source.
The Cross of Calvary is the means.

The Holy Spirit can only work legally on your behalf within the confines of Christ Jesus’ finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary and I ain’t talking about the wooden beam, but what there Christ Jesus wrought.

The Cross of Calvary was a legal work.

I believe if you would quit making your discussions all about salvation [escape hellfire brimstone] and more about moving on in Christ, you wouldn't have such problems to your understanding the issues..

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Agreed, she simply rejects the blood.

I do not believe that is true.

We individuals are saved by His life also.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

WHo are you agreeing with?

Go back and read the post.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

Go back and read the post.

LA

I did. That is why I asked. forget it.

 

[Cross Reference]

For me 'being born again' and 'being saved' are two viewpoints toward the same event, the transformation of a sinner into a follower of Christ Jesus.

Both have a separate distinct starting point.

 

[lifeisgood]

I believe if you would quit making your discussions all about salvation [escape hellfire brimstone] and more about moving on in Christ, you wouldn't have such problems to your understanding the issues..

How can that be done when a person says openly that he/she rejects the blood shed on the Cross of Calvary for Salvation? How can I, or you, for instance, have a conversation with someone who rejects the blood about moving on in Christ?

I personally think in steps and I understand some people have difficulty understanding things in steps.

First I have to understand step #1 before I can go to step #2.

Step #1 in this instance is that there is no other way to get into God's family unless a person comes through the blood. If a person say to me that he/she has accepted Christ Jesus' life; however, rejects His blood shed on the Cross of Calvary for Salvation, then, I have to keep on coming back to step #1, which is, there is no way to get to God unless He sees the blood, for God said, 'When I see the blood....' I will pass over you (save you).

Step #2 for me, then would be as you suggested - a conversation about moving on with Christ.

I apologize before hand if I do not make sense or did not understand what you asked me.

 

[marhig]

I believe that he sacrificed his whole life, he came and sacrificed his whole life to do the will of God!

Christ Jesus willingly gave up His earthly life for the sins of His own (Ephesians 2:8–9)

Jesus did give you his earthly life, but he gave up his whole life for God and to bring God and the truth to us!

Although, I'm not sure how you have got what you have written from this verse below?

Ephesians 2 8:9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:*it is*the gift of God:*Not of works, lest any man should boast

That verse is saying what I've been saying all along, we are saved by the grace of God through faith! And we are saved from our past sins and then we are to go sin no more, deny ourselves, bare our cross and follow Jesus! Obeying God as Jesus did and turn from sin!

 

[lifeisgood]

I do not believe that is true.

We individuals are saved by His life also.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

LA

Thank you for the verses LA.

Step #1, you must come through the blood. God said, 'When I see the blood...' I will pass over you (save you).

Romans 5:10 is not speaking of His perfect life, but rather the pouring out of His Life’s Blood at the Cross of Calvary.

 

[marhig]

I am getting to Heaven NOT because of ANYTHING I do, but BECAUSE of what I BELIEVE.
I BELIEVE that Christ Jesus and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary SAVES ME.

Now, that does not mean that after He saves me, He will not direct me to the good works He has ordained for me.

I am NOT saved because I DO anything.
I am SAVED because Christ Jesus DID EVERYTHING.

Either Christ Jesus did everything that needed to be done to save humankind or He did not.

When a person says that he/she has to add anything to the already finished legal work of the Cross of Calvary, that person is saying that he/she does not believe that what Christ Jesus there did was enough and that person has to help Christ Jesus to save him/her, which is totally foolish.

You do realize the Christ Jesus could have said, ‘No’, to the Cross of Calvary, don’t you?

It is wondrous that Christ Jesus could have said, ‘No, I am not going to the Cross,’ however, He volitionally decided to go through with it to save such a one as me.

Eternity will not be enough to say, 'Thank You, Lord.'

Yes I do realise Jesus could have said no, but if he did say no, Satan would have overcome. But he didn't, because Jesus denied Satan completely and never sinned once and be denying him right to the end of his life Jesus overcame Satan and won him on his own ground. Jesus put God before himself and he completely obeyed God and did his will. Leaving us a perfect example to follow!

Philippians 2

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.*Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name

 

[lifeisgood]

Both have a separate distinct starting point.

Yes, however, both pointing to the same event, the transformation of a sinner into a follower of Christ Jesus.