ECT Which Gospel?

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Tambora,
the gospel is singular all through Gal 2
Of course it is. If it were plural, then both Paul and Peter were entrusted with multiple gospels. But they were not. They were each entrusted with a single gospel.
But obviously that does not mean that the gospel each of them were entrusted with is the same gospel.

For instance:
The house (gospel) of the Smiths (uncircumcised) was entrusted to Paul, just as the house (gospel) of the Jones (circumcised) was entrusted to Peter.
"House" would be singular, even though it is not talking about the exact same house that Paul & Peter were entrusted.
 

Danoh

New member
My own view on this two gospels issue is from an ever ongoing contrastive analysis on my part, of the contents of both Peter's and Paul's preaching.

All one need do is sit down do a contrastive analysis of the contents of both Peter's and Paul's preaching. Doing so, it becomes clear that, though both had preached the gospel of Christ – good news concerning Christ – each had preached an aspect of said news that had greatly differed, in many, many respects.

It becomes clear that this two gospels issue is the issue of two aspects of the gospel of Christ.

The basis, content, and focus of that aspect of “the gospel of Christ” that Peter had preached having been that “which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began,” Acts 3:21.

The basis, content, and focus of that aspect of “the gospel of Christ” that Paul had preached having been what he had referred to as “my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,” Rom. 16:25.

This being, a summary of the many, many contrasts within the content of each’s respective preaching of “the Gospel of Christ.”

A contrast within the content of that aspect of Peter’s and Paul’s respective preaching of “the Gospel of Christ,” that extends far beyond the assumption too soon of too many, as to why said distinction.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Tambora,
the gospel is singular all through Gal 2; what other contextual proof do you need? The genetive matches what Paul was entrusted with to what Peter was entrusted with (TEV the task of): THE SAME SINGULAR GOSPEL. (Actually 'euanggelion' here has the flavor of the task in it--message plus task).

2:8:

N
The Gospel (singular)
V
(passive) to be entrusted/given
DOs
(Paul--assumed from context to be the receiver of the task), as Peter
MOD
to the nations, to the circumcised
Peter did not even know of that gospel Paul preached unto the Gentiles until Paul went up by revelation to communicate it unto him!
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Paul may have been at Pentecost. Paul did not believe his gospel to be any different once he was a believer (notice the we of I Cor 1). His Acts 13 sermon is certainly similar enough. If anyone thinks Paul invented the 'Seed is Christ' thing, or an innovative way of reading the Abraham narrative, they need to revisit Acts 3.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Paul may have been at Pentecost.
Paul could not have even been forgiven under the kingdom gospel!

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Paul's gospel )1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) was not preached at Pentecost!

It was a mystery and the KJB tells us why! Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV


Get your facts to line up with what saith the scripture!
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Paul could not have even been forgiven under the kingdom gospel!

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Paul's gospel )1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) was not preached at Pentecost!

It was a mystery and the KJB tells us why! Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV


Get your facts to line up with what saith the scripture!


They are.

I was not saying Paul was forgiven then, but that he had heard what the message was. So later, when he said he had the same and proper Gospel, he knew from hearing Peter.

There is no kingdom Gospel as though there was another Gospel.

What on earth is Mt 12 quotes doing here?

The same Gospel was preached at Pentecost. It was about Israel's business, but it was still the death and resurrection of Christ for their sins. 2:38.

The Gospel of jusftication is not a mystery. It is not the mystery of ROm 16 or of Eph 3:5 which is the same, with Col's 4 references. That mystery is clear in Eph 3, that the promises come to the nations through the Gospel. What Judaism thought, because of the veil of the law, was that they would get God's word to the nations through the Law. The key phrase is 'through the Gospel.'

It is not a mystery popped in late because Gal 3 says it was declared as early as Abraham, but that's because he was talking to those Jews concerned. It is also in Gen 1-11. It is in Psalms, Isaiah, Daniel. That's why the NT quotes those so heavily.

I think you may be thinking that Peter in ACts 3 was offering a kingdom to Israel (a government, a legal entity). The restitution is not to Israel, though. It is for this world to be given back to God, which Christ will do at the end of his reign, I Cor 15. There is nothing else to do for Israel in the NT. The business concluded with an overwhelming judgement on Israel in the DofJ and there is no word of other things happening later. Peter, and Paul, wanted Israel to work in God's mission to bless people and the nations.

I don't think that means they can't try to maintain a country of their own, but it has nothing to do with "prophecy" or the promises etc. Not after the DofJ, Lk 21, I Thess 2.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
They are.

I was not saying Paul was forgiven then, but that he had heard what the message was. So later, when he said he had the same and proper Gospel, he knew from hearing Peter.
Wrong Galatians 1:11-12 KJV

There is no kingdom Gospel as though there was another Gospel.
The gospel of the kingdom was a very real gospel preached by the Lord on earth and the 12 and it DID NOT include the d, b, r. Do you deny this?
What on earth is Mt 12 quotes doing here?
It's there to show the fact that Paul could not have been forgiven under the gospel of the kingdom neither in that world, neither in the world to come. Now what will you do since you want to call all of the gospels the same?

The same Gospel was preached at Pentecost. It was about Israel's business, but it was still the death and resurrection of Christ for their sins. 2:38.
You cannot show where Peter preached "that Christ died for our sins" as the good news at Pentecost! If it were preached there, you could and should show it! Do it!

The Gospel of jusftication is not a mystery. It is not the mystery of ROm 16 or of Eph 3:5 which is the same,
The mystery of Romans 16 and Ephesians 3 are different mysteries! The mystery of Christ is the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) hidden in the scriptures/ that Christ was dying for some men's sins until revealed to and through the apostle Paul (Romans 16:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

The mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV) is the inclusion of "all men" including the "you Gentiles". It's the due time message from the due time testifier (Acts 20:24 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV)!

Go 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
 

achduke

Active member
The gospel of the kingdom was a very real gospel preached by the Lord on earth and the 12 and it DID NOT include the d, b, r. Do you deny this?

I can find the DBR in Luke by itself. Paul was more detailed but the process by which we are saved is the same.


DEATH

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commend My spirit.' "And having said this, He breathed His last.

BURIAL

Luk 23:53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before.

RISEN

Luk 24:6 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee,

FAITH

Luk 7:50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.'

GRACE

Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

REMISSION OF SINS

Luk 24:46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

Luk 24:47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Heir,
What about all the times Jesus said it was going to happen in addition to why it was going to happen? There's probably 50 passages. Don't tell me you can't find any.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I can find the DBR in Luke by itself. Paul was more detailed but the process by which we are saved is the same.


DEATH

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commend My spirit.' "And having said this, He breathed His last.

BURIAL

Luk 23:53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before.

RISEN

Luk 24:6 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee,

FAITH

Luk 7:50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.'

GRACE

Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

REMISSION OF SINS

Luk 24:46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

Luk 24:47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
FAIL
The d, b, r was not a part of the gospel of the kingdom preached! And the fact that "Christ died for our sins"? NO WAY!
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I can find the DBR in Luke by itself. Paul was more detailed but the process by which we are saved is the same.


DEATH

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commend My spirit.' "And having said this, He breathed His last.

BURIAL

Luk 23:53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before.

RISEN

Luk 24:6 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee,

FAITH

Luk 7:50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.'

GRACE

Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

REMISSION OF SINS

Luk 24:46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

Luk 24:47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Again, for the babes, to protect them from those that do not survey the book, who have not studied the details of the book, a book of details, but just spam sound bytes, emotional ramblings..and thus satanically "argue" just one piece of good news in the book, that all the "good news's"/gospel's are the same.

Made up. Ive given them chapter, and verse, in which to soak their heads, but their father the devil tells them to pose like they do not exist.


Translated: I, (fill in the blank), cannot believe that there is more than one piece of "good news" in the book, and am clueless as to what the term "gospel" means, and thus, on record, assert that Judas, Saint Judas, preached "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV





As I've asked, over, and over, show us where Peter and the 11, including Judas, ever preached, prior to the death, burial, resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"), at a time, while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom:

"The master is going to die for our sins...be buried...be raised again for our justification. Believe it to be saved/justified."

They cannot. Peter tried to prevent the master's death, and did not even believe that he had risen(initially), even after it happened. None of the 12 knew that He would die, until late in His ministry, and yet, they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, prior to knowing.

I know that's quite deep...take a breath.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel":

Death
Burial
Resurrection




The gospel of the kingdom, the "good news" of the coming kingdom of heaven, upon the earth, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

The 12, including Judas, did preach the former.



Again-show us where Peter and the 12 ever preached, prior to the death, burial, resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "the gospel”), while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom:"The master is going to die for our sins...be buried...be raised again for our justification. Believe this good news to be saved!"

They cannot. Peter tried to prevent the master's death, and did not even believe that he had risen(initially), even after it happened. None of the 12 knew that He would die, until late in His ministry, and yet, they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, prior to knowing.


I thought so...



No scripture says "one gospel"/piece of good news, or even hints at that, anymore than you can argue that there is just "one heaven...one temple...one earth...one baptism only throughout the book...one church............"



1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"

Death
Burial
Resurrection


Survey the book...

1.The 12 did not know of the impending dbr-it was hid from them, until later in the Lord's ministry-and yet, prior to them knowing, they were preaching "the gospel of the kingdom:"


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31-32 KJV

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34 KJV

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9 KJV


2. Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, and His death was a key component of 1 Cor. 15:1-4:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21-22 KJV

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31-32 KJV


3. Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, the 12 initially did not believe it:

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17 KJV


" And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:10-14 KJV

"And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11 KJV

" And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41 KJV

Therefore, they were not preaching the dbr, "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, as a basis of justification, at least prior to its occurrence, but they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same "the" gospels, "good news." This "argument" that there is just one "the gospel," just one piece of good news, self-destructs, "commits suicide". There is plenty of "good news"(and bad news) in the book-the context tells us what "good news"/gospel is in view.
 

achduke

Active member
FAIL
The d, b, r was not a part of the gospel of the kingdom preached! And the fact that "Christ died for our sins"? NO WAY!

The reason we are saved is because Christ died for our sins but is it absolutely necessary for us to know this in order to be saved or is faith in God and his Son and the grace of God enough? All the patriarchs had faith that God would deliver them. Are they not saved? What about Abraham, Jacob, Moses are they saved?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The reason we are saved is because Christ died for our sins but is it absolutely necessary for us to know this in order to be saved or is faith in God and his Son and the grace of God enough? All the patriarchs had faith that God would deliver them. Are they not saved? What about Abraham, Jacob, Moses are they saved?

It is now-the biblical concept of "progressive revelation."
 

turbosixx

New member
Again, for the babes, to protect them from those that do not survey the book, who have not studied the details of the book, a book of details, but just spam sound bytes, emotional ramblings..and thus satanically "argue" just one piece of good news in the book, that all the "good news's"/gospel's are the same.

Made up. Ive given them chapter, and verse, in which to soak their heads, but their father the devil tells them to pose like they do not exist.


Translated: I, (fill in the blank), cannot believe that there is more than one piece of "good news" in the book, and am clueless as to what the term "gospel" means, and thus, on record, assert that Judas, Saint Judas, preached "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV





As I've asked, over, and over, show us where Peter and the 11, including Judas, ever preached, prior to the death, burial, resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"), at a time, while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom:

"The master is going to die for our sins...be buried...be raised again for our justification. Believe it to be saved/justified."

They cannot. Peter tried to prevent the master's death, and did not even believe that he had risen(initially), even after it happened. None of the 12 knew that He would die, until late in His ministry, and yet, they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, prior to knowing.

I know that's quite deep...take a breath.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel":

Death
Burial
Resurrection




The gospel of the kingdom, the "good news" of the coming kingdom of heaven, upon the earth, is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

The 12, including Judas, did preach the former.



Again-show us where Peter and the 12 ever preached, prior to the death, burial, resurrection(1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "the gospel”), while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom:"The master is going to die for our sins...be buried...be raised again for our justification. Believe this good news to be saved!"

They cannot. Peter tried to prevent the master's death, and did not even believe that he had risen(initially), even after it happened. None of the 12 knew that He would die, until late in His ministry, and yet, they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, prior to knowing.


I thought so...



No scripture says "one gospel"/piece of good news, or even hints at that, anymore than you can argue that there is just "one heaven...one temple...one earth...one baptism only throughout the book...one church............"



1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"

Death
Burial
Resurrection


Survey the book...

1.The 12 did not know of the impending dbr-it was hid from them, until later in the Lord's ministry-and yet, prior to them knowing, they were preaching "the gospel of the kingdom:"


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31-32 KJV

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34 KJV

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9 KJV


2. Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, and His death was a key component of 1 Cor. 15:1-4:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21-22 KJV

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31-32 KJV


3. Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, the 12 initially did not believe it:

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17 KJV


" And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:10-14 KJV

"And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11 KJV

" And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41 KJV

Therefore, they were not preaching the dbr, "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, as a basis of justification, at least prior to its occurrence, but they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same "the" gospels, "good news." This "argument" that there is just one "the gospel," just one piece of good news, self-destructs, "commits suicide". There is plenty of "good news"(and bad news) in the book-the context tells us what "good news"/gospel is in view.

Did Peter preach the gospel on Pentecost?
 

achduke

Active member
Did Peter preach the gospel on Pentecost?

We know Jesus died for our sins but is it necessary to know that to be saved or is faith enough?

Is not the kingdom of God what Jesus also preached? The process by which why we are saved is made clear by Paul but those who do not know this are they still saved? Jesus saved many of people by faith alone before he was resurrected. Are they no longer saved? Other then dieing for our sins he preached the Kingdom of God and the resurrection. Is this not important anymore or did Paul supercede it?

Luke 4:43 but He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent."
 

turbosixx

New member
We know Jesus died for our sins but is it necessary to know that to be saved or is faith enough?

Is not the kingdom of God what Jesus also preached? The process by which why we are saved is made clear by Paul but those who do not know this are they still saved? Jesus saved many of people by faith alone before he was resurrected. Are they no longer saved? Other then dieing for our sins he preached the Kingdom of God and the resurrection. Is this not important anymore or did Paul supercede it?

Luke 4:43 but He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent."

Did Peter preach the gospel, DBR of Jesus on Pentecost?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Did Peter preach the gospel on Pentecost?

Translated: John W. did answer the previous "argument," i.e., "There is no kingdom Gospel as though there was another Gospel"= the 12 did not preach the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, but I, turbocharged, will rabbit trail him, not concede his brilliance, and will bait'nswitch.....

That does not work with me, rummy.
 
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