I/we know-2 Cor. 4:4 KJV, 1 Cor. 2:14 KJV. Have a seat.
Where in scripture do we read about the Messiah who was to come?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
I/we know-2 Cor. 4:4 KJV, 1 Cor. 2:14 KJV. Have a seat.
I understand these verses.
genuineoriginal
New member
Preterists mainly agree with the timetable used by historicists, and the timetable points to the start of the ministry of Jesus as Messiah the Prince, the crucifixion, and the beginning of the time of the Gentiles.
Futurists tend to have the 483 years leading up to Messiah the Prince end on Palm Sunday by shortening the years to less than a full rotation around the sun. They also cut the last seven years completely off and leave them unfulfilled for not reason at all, failing to account for fulfillment of several prophecies.
It is the years to Messiah that previously needed to make sense. There were two views I was presented with.
Ben Masada
New member
Then, HaShem raised up Joshua, the closest-to-be-like-you prophet if you read Deut. 34:9; Numb. 27:18; and Joshua 1:17.
Which; absent of distinguishing between Prophecy and Mystery, cannot be done "properly."
Ben Masada
New member
Where in Scriptures do we read about the Messiah who was to come?
Where in Scriptures do we read about the Messiah who was to come?
Everywhere whenever the Jews were forced out into exile. The point is that only the high class would be taken into exile and back would remain only the poor ones and illiterates of the people; you know the ingnorant and the unlearned ones to pray for the return of the Messiah until the flowers of the Jews would eventually return
Where in Scriptures do we read about the Messiah who was to come?
Everywhere whenever the Jews were forced out into exile. The point is that only the high class would be taken into exile and back would remain only the poor ones and illiterates of the people; you know the ingnorant and the unlearned ones to pray for the return of the Messiah until the flowers of the Jews would eventually return
That is poor logic.
Fururists- at least the Dispensational Futurist - understand the times of the Gentiles to have begun with the Babylonian captivity, Dan. 2:44; Dan. 9:2.
It refers to days of Gentile powers being able to have a say in Israel's governing of its own affairs, if not outright rule over Israel, due to Israel's departure from Moses, see Dan. 9's prayer.
Its duration?
See Matt. 18:22.
"Seed" just means "descendants" in Hebrew in this context. It does not mean "sperm" or anything like that- even when speaking of the seed of a male.
Made up-the context is exactly as I stated.
1 Peter 1:23 KJV
being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The bible is a book of details. Thus, unlike you, I pay attention to details-contrasts:
"her seed"
Survey 1 John 3:9 KJV, Revelation 14-"born again"-ability not to sin....virgins....his seed....
Take a seat.
I actually don't know what you mean here. I don't know what you are saying.
genuineoriginal
New member
Futurists just don't have a clue when it comes to eschatology, that is why they keep getting things wrong.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God. He is, and He claimed this was so. He is(present tense) also a man. The "kinsman redeemer" concept explains why this is so. In Genesis, "The Seed Plot of the Holy Bible", we have the "beginning" of 7(representing completion, perfection) promises/reqirements of this redeemer. The redeemer would
1.be from the human race-Gen. 3:15 KJV=seed of a woman(and virgin conception-only a male has a seed)
2. be from a certain section of the human race-Gen. 9:26 KJV=Shem
3. be from a certain nation of that section-Gen. 12:1-3 KJV =Hebrew
4. be from a certain tribe of that Hebrew nation-Gen. 49:10 KJV=Judah
5. be from a certain family of that tribe-2 Sam. 7:16 KJV=David
6. be of a certain member of that family-Is. 7:14 KJV=Mary
7. be from a certain village belonging to that family member-Micah 5:2 KJV Bethlehem Ephratah(which means "house of bread/fruitful, grow, increase")
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption:
1. Redeemer must be a near kinsman(Lev. 25:25 KJV- "...any of his kin....). The Lord Jesus Christ became a MAN, taking on human form. Thus,
"...THE MAN CHRIST JESUS(emphasis mine)....." 2 Tim. 2:5 KJV
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN(emphasis mine) over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did WORSHIP(emphasis mine), and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15 KJV
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:9 KJV
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN(emphasis mine) clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude." Daniel 10:5-6 KJV
"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Rev. 1:13-15 KJV
This is "the Alpha and the Omega"=God, and MAN, none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9 KJV
This is Paul's point-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowlege Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang" and the unsaved), all will acknowlegde that He is God, as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
2.Redeemer must be able to redeem-must be able to pay the whole price of redemption by yourself. The satisfactory price was the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:28 KJV, 1 Peter 1:18-19 KJV , Romans 3:24-25 KJV ..............).
3.The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV-see also 1 John 3:5 KJV, 1 Peter 2:22 KJV, Hebrews 4:15 KJV, John 8:46 KJV , Exodus 12:5 KJV ="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT.
4. The redeemer must be willing-must be voluntary:
*"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD." Leviticus 1:3 KJV
* Genesis 22:6 KJV"...they went both of them together..... A "picture"/type of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily walking together.
And notice in the Genesis 22 account that Isaac, as a type of Christ, was old enough to carry wood(a picture of the cross) up the mountain. This infers that he was probably at least in his teen years, maybe older. It would have been very unlikely that Abraham, in his advanced years, could have "forced" Isaac onto the altar. Thus, Isaac voluntarily, in faith, offered himself as the sacrifice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ did, as it is written:
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18 KJV
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit OFFERED HIMSELF(emphasis mine)f without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:14 KJV
2. Joshua 5:13-15 KJV. You may also want to review "the angel of the LORD" passages, which clearly points to the LORD(God the Father) and the "angel of the LORD" as separate "persons", and yet the angel of the LORD, which is the pre-incarnation person of the Lord Jesus Christ, both as diety. Example:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman..." Judges 13:3 KJV
"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A MAN(emphasis mine) of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name..." Judges 13:6 KJV
"For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and FELL ON THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND(emphasis mine).
But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN GOD(emphasis mine)." Judges 13: 20-22 KJV
1.be from the human race-Gen. 3:15 KJV=seed of a woman(and virgin conception-only a male has a seed)
2. be from a certain section of the human race-Gen. 9:26 KJV=Shem
3. be from a certain nation of that section-Gen. 12:1-3 KJV =Hebrew
4. be from a certain tribe of that Hebrew nation-Gen. 49:10 KJV=Judah
5. be from a certain family of that tribe-2 Sam. 7:16 KJV=David
6. be of a certain member of that family-Is. 7:14 KJV=Mary
7. be from a certain village belonging to that family member-Micah 5:2 KJV Bethlehem Ephratah(which means "house of bread/fruitful, grow, increase")
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption:
1. Redeemer must be a near kinsman(Lev. 25:25 KJV- "...any of his kin....). The Lord Jesus Christ became a MAN, taking on human form. Thus,
"...THE MAN CHRIST JESUS(emphasis mine)....." 2 Tim. 2:5 KJV
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood A MAN(emphasis mine) over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did WORSHIP(emphasis mine), and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15 KJV
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:9 KJV
"Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain MAN(emphasis mine) clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude." Daniel 10:5-6 KJV
"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." Rev. 1:13-15 KJV
This is "the Alpha and the Omega"=God, and MAN, none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9 KJV
This is Paul's point-"the Lord Jesus"= You must acknowlege Him as Lord=Deity=God. Eventually, all will do this(including Satan and "his gang" and the unsaved), all will acknowlegde that He is God, as it is written:
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
2.Redeemer must be able to redeem-must be able to pay the whole price of redemption by yourself. The satisfactory price was the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ(Acts 20:28 KJV, 1 Peter 1:18-19 KJV , Romans 3:24-25 KJV ..............).
3.The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV-see also 1 John 3:5 KJV, 1 Peter 2:22 KJV, Hebrews 4:15 KJV, John 8:46 KJV , Exodus 12:5 KJV ="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT.
4. The redeemer must be willing-must be voluntary:
*"If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD." Leviticus 1:3 KJV
* Genesis 22:6 KJV"...they went both of them together..... A "picture"/type of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ voluntarily walking together.
And notice in the Genesis 22 account that Isaac, as a type of Christ, was old enough to carry wood(a picture of the cross) up the mountain. This infers that he was probably at least in his teen years, maybe older. It would have been very unlikely that Abraham, in his advanced years, could have "forced" Isaac onto the altar. Thus, Isaac voluntarily, in faith, offered himself as the sacrifice, just as the Lord Jesus Christ did, as it is written:
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18 KJV
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit OFFERED HIMSELF(emphasis mine)f without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:14 KJV
2. Joshua 5:13-15 KJV. You may also want to review "the angel of the LORD" passages, which clearly points to the LORD(God the Father) and the "angel of the LORD" as separate "persons", and yet the angel of the LORD, which is the pre-incarnation person of the Lord Jesus Christ, both as diety. Example:
"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman..." Judges 13:3 KJV
"Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A MAN(emphasis mine) of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name..." Judges 13:6 KJV
"For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and FELL ON THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND(emphasis mine).
But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN GOD(emphasis mine)." Judges 13: 20-22 KJV
Is it okay to send you a private message, or should I leave your post as it is and not respond to it anymore here?
No/yes.
Okay.
Google it. :chuckle: