ECT WHEN DOES THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN APPEAR ??

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DAN P

Well-known member
Hi to all and and interesting verse in Matt 8:11 and reads , And I say unto you , That many SHALL COME from the east and west , and SHALL SIT DOWN with Abraham , ans Isaac , and Jacob , in the Kingdom of Heaven !!


From verse 12 the children of the Kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness , which are those Jews not makings it to the Millennial Kingdom !!

The verb SHALL COME and the verb SHALL SIT DOWN are all in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , so when does this then happen !!

Obviously there has to be a Resurrection here called the Resurrection of the JUST and the UNJUST !!

I say that the B O C is not any where to be seen here !!


dan p
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
It is when the Christian movement has the awareness that it is the location of God's redemptive work. it took a while to realize that, in the setting of Judaism they were in.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
It is when the Christian movement has the awareness that it is the location of God's redemptive work. it took a while to realize that, in the setting of Judaism they were in.
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Hi and I see God's redemptive word in 2 Tim 1:9 , before the AGES BEGAN , so where do you see it ??

dan p
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
DAN P said:
Hi to all and and interesting verse in Matt 8:11 and reads , And I say unto you , That many SHALL COME from the east and west , and SHALL SIT DOWN with Abraham , ans Isaac , and Jacob , in the Kingdom of Heaven !!


From verse 12 the children of the Kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness , which are those Jews not makings it to the Millennial Kingdom !!

The verb SHALL COME and the verb SHALL SIT DOWN are all in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , so when does this then happen !!

Obviously there has to be a Resurrection here called the Resurrection of the JUST and the UNJUST !!

I say that the B O C is not any where to be seen here !!


dan p
Click to expand...

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


'Ye' is plural and is referring to corporate Israel in the land.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
steko said:
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


'Ye' is plural and is referring to corporate Israel in the land.
Click to expand...





Most of Luke is Paul's teaching. Look where you will, Paul thought the 2nd coming was to happen in that generation (there is no hint of allowance for delay), and Lk 21 is his record of saying that it would happen right after the destruction of Israel in 66-70, which is locked into its time frame by what is said about the nursing babies as adults in ch 23.

Peter says Paul is hard to understand on some of these things, and I think this is one of them. Mark, Matt and Peter all allow for a delay (Peter explains it).

The 'lift up your heads' applies to all of the above whether delayed or not.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
Most of Luke is Paul's teaching. Look where you will, Paul thought the 2nd coming was to happen in that generation (there is no hint of allowance for delay), and Lk 21 is his record of saying that it would happen right after the destruction of Israel in 66-70, which is locked into its time frame by what is said about the nursing babies as adults in ch 23.

Peter says Paul is hard to understand on some of these things, and I think this is one of them. Mark, Matt and Peter all allow for a delay (Peter explains it).

The 'lift up your heads' applies to all of the above whether delayed or not.
Click to expand...

So, according to you, 70AD was Israel's redemption. :loser:
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi to all and and interesting verse in Matt 8:11 and reads , And I say unto you , That many SHALL COME from the east and west , and SHALL SIT DOWN with Abraham , ans Isaac , and Jacob , in the Kingdom of Heaven !!


From verse 12 the children of the Kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness , which are those Jews not makings it to the Millennial Kingdom !!

The verb SHALL COME and the verb SHALL SIT DOWN are all in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , so when does this then happen !!

Obviously there has to be a Resurrection here called the Resurrection of the JUST and the UNJUST !!

I say that the B O C is not any where to be seen here !!


dan p
Click to expand...

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" appears only in Matthew and refers to the personal presence of Jesus Christ as Jehovah's king on the earth.

So then, when will he return? When will he be personally present on the earth again? Acts 1:11

Acts 1:11 is referring to an event after I Thessalonians 4:13-18
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Peter says Paul is hard to understand on some of these things, and I think this is one of them. Mark, Matt and Peter all allow for a delay (Peter explains it).
Click to expand...
2 Peter 3
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.



Let the Bible define itself, not your commentaries.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
oatmeal said:
The phrase "kingdom of heaven" appears only in Matthew and refers to the personal presence of Jesus Christ as Jehovah's king on the earth.

So then, when will he return? When will he be personally present on the earth again? Acts 1:11

Acts 1:11 is referring to an event after I Thessalonians 4:13-18
Click to expand...


Hi , and 1 Thess 4:13-18 , has to happen first and then the Tribulation will begin and at the end Matt 24 and Luke 21 and Acts 2:17 and in Joel 2:28 and in many other verses !

dan p
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
steko said:
So, according to you, 70AD was Israel's redemption. :loser:
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If you think that, I can't trust you with anything in the Bible. You might as well tell me 'remember Lot's wife' is about FGM.

I have said 1000x here that it was the destruction explained in Dan 9's 70 weeks. That's why Jesus used the language of Dan 8-9 about it. The BELIEVERS who left experienced a bit of redemption when they were saved from it all in a surprising way.

I have said 1000x that Paul EXPECTED the judgement of the whole world right after the DofJ but that Mark (the earliest written gospel after the oral) Matthew and Peter all say there was a delayed allowed between the DofJ and the final world judgement. Once 72 (the Masada event) went by, it was obvious that there was a delay.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Kooky, ain't it.
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Here's what is kooky: that after 2 years here the guy and yourself have no idea what I say.

2, that you think he does and validate him.

You both ruin your credibility together with those two things.

I have probably put the following formula in posts 1000x:

1, Mt24A is Judean and 1st century (that generation)
2, Mt24B is the judgement of the whole world, was EXPECTED right after but there was also an ALLOWED DELAY, and when 72 AD went by (the Masada event), there was obviously a delay.

For future reference if you don't paste this in your reference to me, you have no credibility. Deal.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
For the convenience of Steko and Tambora:


Interplanner says:
1, Mt24A is Judean and 1st century (that generation)
2, Mt24B is the judgement of the whole world, was EXPECTED right after but there was also an ALLOWED DELAY, and when 72 AD went by (the Masada event), there was obviously a delay.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
steko said:
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


'Ye' is plural and is referring to corporate Israel in the land.
Click to expand...




It is definitely not corporate Israel in the land. You is believers. He was referring to things expected in that generation. Luke transcribed Paul's teaching, mostly. The DofJ was expected and happened. What they didn't know ahead of time was whether there would be a delay.

There was still an element of delivery by surprise for the believers out of the jaws of death in the events of the DofJ. The civil war in Rome distracted Vespasian from his systematic siege and it was postponed a year. He became emperor and sent his son Titus back to finish the attack. Most believers left as told during this interruption--if they hadn't left already from news of a systematic siege.

These are basic facts of the DofJ but of course you are from a POV that says it is a sin to know any history, and which is a constant exercise in stuffing the Bible with 2 programs, one being Israel as a race with its own promises and program.
 
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