What Would Be The Essential Components of Ensuring Eternal Life in Heaven.

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Miles J. Stanford put it this way...


Watchman Nee put it another way...​
During the 80's and 90's I was a big fan of the writings of Stanford. I have Stanford's "Complete Green Letters," even his "None but the Hungry Heart" pamphlets and his "None but the Hungry Heart (Advanced)" print-outs. Drove out to Colorado once to visit him but that's a different story. I also loved Watchman Nee's "The Normal Christian Life." I even read Nee's 700 page tome, "The Spiritual Man."

But then, at Bob Enyart's urging, I read "Christian Holiness Restudied and Restated" by J. Sidlow Baxter.

It's consistent with the view Bob Enyart's former pastor, Bob Hill, wrote in "You Can't Live the Christian life"

My goal is by faith, to walk with God. I believe that means we should constantly commune with God and be aware of His presence in everything that we do. When we do this, He performs the miracle of the Christian life in our lives.

Although that is consistent with Stanford and Nee, the book is nevertheless a scholarly, piece-by-piece dismantling of the whole "recogning your way to Holiness" philosophy.

You should get a copy.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
So sorry you are not reading well today, I will try to restate it.

Christians are saved entirely by faith in the Lord Jesus the final sacrifice for sins. Any good deeds performed by Christians after being Saved are then rewarded at the Bema Judgement Seat by Jesus. This is specified in 2 Cor. 5:10.
Any "good deeds" done out of obligation are of your flesh and will profit you nothing.

"For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad."

This will take place at the soon coming Rapture of all Believers. Hope this helps your uncertainty.
There's no uncertainty on my part aside from figuring out what your motives are.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
During the 80's and 90's I was a big fan of the writings of Stanford. I have Stanford's "Complete Green Letters," even his "None but the Hungry Heart" pamphlets and his "None but the Hungry Heart (Advanced)" print-outs. Drove out to Colorado once to visit him but that's a different story. I also loved Watchman Nee's "The Normal Christian Life." I even read Nee's 700 page tome, "The Spiritual Man."

But then, at Bob Enyart's urging, I read "Christian Holiness Restudied and Restated" by J. Sidlow Baxter.

It's consistent with the view Bob Enyart's former pastor, Bob Hill, wrote in "You Can't Live the Christian life"
I actually wrote a rather lengthy open letter to Standford one time and discovered that he had passed away before I was even finished with it. I still have it around in some box somewhere. I never sent it because I figured no one in his organization was going to be convinced that he wasn't being consistent and because Stanford himself now agrees with me anyway! ;)

I never got anything out of any of Nee's books other than "The Normal Christian Life".

Although that is consistent with Stanford and Nee, the book is nevertheless a scholarly, piece-by-piece dismantling of the whole "recogning your way to Holiness" philosophy.
I very much doubt that Stanford would have agreed with the notion of "reckoning your way to holiness" as though it were some process by which you improve yourself over time. In fact, that idea seems quite contrary to what it is Stanford would have had to reckon. That being that you are already holy. My understanding of Stanford's teaching is that it's emphasis is on believing the biblical facts concerning your position in Christ and letting God worry about your fleshly condition here on Earth. It feels VERY compatible with Bob Hill's "You Can't Live the Christian Life", which I think I've read a hundred times.

Do you disagree?

You should get a copy.
I'll start reading that immediately. Thanks for the link.

Clete

P.S. I just saw the price! Maybe not "immediately"!
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Remember, Matt. 5:16 has Jesus commanding "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and praise your Father in heaven."

If you do not love all of your neighbors as you love yourself, it is okay. You can still be saved from Hell.
As I said, you seem not to understand what it means to love your neighbor! It certainly has nothing to do with paying their bills for them (duh!)

Regardless, to teach conditional blessing is to teach law, which Jesus did, most especially in Matthew 5 which begins with the so called "Beatitudes", all of which are conditional blessings.

Those in the Body of Christ are no longer under the law for we have died to the law. See Romans 7 (the whole chapter) and...

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​
 
Last edited:

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
I actually wrote a rather lengthy open letter to Standford one time and discovered that he had passed away before I was even finished with it. I still have it around in some box somewhere. I never sent it because I figured no one in his organization was going to be convinced that he wasn't being consistent and because Stanford himself now agrees with me anyway! ;)

I never got anything out of any of Nee's books other than "The Normal Christian Life".


I very much doubt that Stanford would have agreed with the notion of "reckoning your way to holiness" as though it were some process by which you improve yourself over time. In fact, that idea seems quite contrary to what it is Stanford would have had to reckon. That being that you are already holy. My understanding of Stanford's teaching is that it's emphasis is on believing the biblical facts concerning your position in Christ and letting God worry about your fleshly condition here on Earth. It feels VERY compatible with Bob Hill's "You Can't Live the Christian Life", which I think I've read a hundred times.

Do you disagree?
Not off the top of my head but it's been decades since I read it.
I'll start reading that immediately. Thanks for the link.

Clete

P.S. I just saw the price! Maybe not "immediately"!
I know, but like the price of The Plot it will be worth it.
 

Jenkins

Active member
Any "good deeds" done out of obligation are of your flesh and will profit you nothing.


There's no uncertainty on my part aside from figuring out what your motives are.
Apostle Paul speaks of himself and other believers being "Constrained" and as "Slaves" unto the Lord Jesus. Hopefully, you will find an interest in what God's Word actually states, rather than try to think about the motives of other people. Have a lovely weekend.
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
Not that I can remember.
@JudgeRightly ?

Unknown, but I did purchase Umberto Cassuto's book The Documentary Hypothesis and the Composition of the Pentateuch: Eight Lectures for him (it was on the BEL wish-list).

The Documentary Hypothesis and the Composition of the Pentateuch: Eight Lectures https://a.co/d/7msmrr6
Bought it used and had it mailed to him.

There's two other books on the BEL wish list that Bob put together, but other than the wish list, I don't think there were any official "recommended reading" lists, other than what's on https://store.kgov.com.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
No TV/Videos/Hollywood/Sports/Drama, small amount of News, numerous Scripture passages every day w/various references consulted, hundreds of YouTube hrs. of Biblical Academic Doctrine &Theology, various thematic books on Doctrine & exegetical processes, church Bible study, daily confession/worship unto The Father, Supplication for family, inlaws, neighbors, friends, people I meet, where I live, food to neighbors and friends, funds to variety of Church & Parachurch entities, 37 years in Parachurch work but now just keep in touch. Speak of God's Redemption per opportunities. Gave up nonsense hobbies. All I can think of for now.
That's plenty, if done with a pure heart.
May the name of Jesus Christ be glorified in all you do.
However, about your "daily confession"...I hope you meant "manifesting Christ on earth" by that.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
What effort do you or should you put into current or future obedience to God since you think it is impossible for you to be disobedient now that you are saved?
It is hardly anything that can be scripted.
I have a conscience, and the Spirit of God, plus promises like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

And I won't consider myself "saved" until I actually am, having heard my name read from the book of life on the last day.
Until then, I call myself "converted".

Do you believe the words of 1 John 3:9-10?
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Are you a child of God?
 

marke

Well-known member
It is hardly anything that can be scripted.
I have a conscience, and the Spirit of God, plus promises like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

And I won't consider myself "saved" until I actually am, having heard my name read from the book of life on the last day.
Until then, I call myself "converted".

Do you believe the words of 1 John 3:9-10?
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Are you a child of God?
If you don't know you have been born again then how do you know you have already achieved sinless perfection according to that unusual doctrine?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Apostle Paul speaks of himself and other believers being "Constrained" and as "Slaves" unto the Lord Jesus.
He also spent his entire ministry telling people not to ever allow themselves to be placed under the law. It isn't about following the rules. You can live by a list of rules or you can live by the Spirit. Not both.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hopefully, you will find an interest in what God's Word actually states, rather than try to think about the motives of other people. Have a lovely weekend.
As though your posts are God's word because you showed up here to post it. Of the two of us, I'm the one who's been making actual argument and quoting scriptures while you're the one making completely baseless claims, saying such idiotic things as paying my neighbor's house payment is what it means to love my neighbor.

Are you trying to get me to put you on ignore?
 
Last edited:

Jenkins

Active member
That's plenty, if done with a pure heart.
May the name of Jesus Christ be glorified in all you do.
However, about your "daily confession"...I hope you meant "manifesting Christ on earth" by that.
How do you come up with this "pure heart" standard? Do you have a "pure heart?" Just curious.
 

Jenkins

Active member
He also spent his entire ministry telling people not to ever allow themselves to be placed under the law. It isn't about following the rules. You can live by a list of rules or you can live by the Spirit. Not both.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


As though your posts are God's word because you showed up here to post it. Of the two of us, I'm the one who's been making actual argument and quoting scriptures while you're the one making completely baseless claims, saying such idiotic things as paying my neighbor's house payment is what it means to love my neighbor.

Are you trying to get me to put you on ignore?
As typical for propounders of words, much confusion is perpetuated to fail to distinguish between the "Law" of Moses which is now abrogated, and the Law of Holiness unto God which is now commanded by Him.

All "Lawless" people are damned to Hell. "Whoever commits sin transgressed also the law, for sin is transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.
 
Last edited:

Jenkins

Active member
He also spent his entire ministry telling people not to ever allow themselves to be placed under the law. It isn't about following the rules. You can live by a list of rules or you can live by the Spirit. Not both.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


As though your posts are God's word because you showed up here to post it. Of the two of us, I'm the one who's been making actual argument and quoting scriptures while you're the one making completely baseless claims, saying such idiotic things as paying my neighbor's house payment is what it means to love my neighbor.

Are you trying to get me to put you on ignore?
How do you love your neighbor as yourself? Just answer.
 

marke

Well-known member
How do you love your neighbor as yourself? Just answer.
If wicked democrats had loved their neighbor they would have never unjustly impeached Trump twice and would not now be brutally persecuting opponents of democrat voter fraud right now.
 

Jenkins

Active member
If wicked democrats had loved their neighbor they would have never unjustly impeached Trump twice and would not now be brutally persecuting opponents of democrat voter fraud right now.
Fascinating observation. The issue now rests.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
If you don't know you have been born again then how do you know you have already achieved sinless perfection according to that unusual doctrine?
I know I have been born again.
That isn't the same as being "saved", as there is still a day of judgement coming.
I will say "I am saved" after God has had His say regarding my life.
I will say I have been "saved" from cigarettes, pot, hash, LSD, speed, alcoholism, porn, and many other debilitating side-tracks from Godliness.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
How do you come up with this "pure heart" standard? Do you have a "pure heart?" Just curious.
I mentioned "pure heart" in contrast to a selfish, self-aggrandizing, idolatrous, heart.
"Motives" carry a lot of weight.
I do have a pure heart, thanks to the many tools given by God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Top