What Would Be The Essential Components of Ensuring Eternal Life in Heaven.

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I have done most of those things, because of the grace of God in me.
Because of the new nature God has provided for me.
Routinely?
I work at a food bank.
I wouldn't be able to call myself a Christian with a straight face if I didn't do those things.

What do you routinely do to glorify God and manifest both the life and death of our Savior?
WAIT!

You're the idiot that believes he doesn't ever sin!

What the Hell am I doing even talking to you at all?

Do not respond to any of my other posts. I won't read it.

You aren't a Christian at all. You belong to a cult. You will go to Hell if you do not repent. Every breath you take furthers your sin!
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Your pride is astounding.
Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works. (James 2:18)
The only thing I am proud of is the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for my sins.
He, my example, endured faithfully until His end.
I pray I may do so also.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
You are the one making the distinction. Paul makes no such distinction. The only ones who do, teach law - by definition!
As Paul's only wrote against the works of the Law, ie., circumcision, sabbath keeping, and dietary requirements mostly, it is ludicrous to think simple Godliness would be under that "works" umbrella.
If you think that you can do things that facilitate, augment, enrich or otherwise improve your relationship with God, you're wrong and what you've done is taken a bite from the fruit of Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (a.k.a. the law) which Christ nailed to that other Tree at Calvary. (If you think that the tree analogy is coincidence then you do not understand the gospel and will inevitably teach law instead of grace, which your every post proves.)
I will never fall into the trap of a ban on prayer, fasting, studying, talking with God/Jesus, or charity, in order to mollify those who live a dry faith.
It would kill me, spiritually.
You have no standing before God whatsoever nor are you the slightest bit capable of attaining it.
My only "standing: with God is as a servant.
Jesus allowed me to "attain" that honor with His death and resurrection.
The cockroach under your refrigerator has more standing before you than you do before the only living, righteous, pure, holy and just God that exists.
Agreed, but He loved me from before I was born or born again.
You are far more evil than you ever imagined and have precisely nothing to offer God.
I was once as you state, but I gave up that life for a new one, by the blood of God's Son.
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
You have nothing more to contribute than did Abraham when God put him into a deep sleep before passing between the cut pieces of the sacrifice (Genesis 15). God did not need your help to save your soul from sin and He needs exactly the same amount of help for the rest of the process.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.​
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!​
Agreed.
All I had to do was hear the gospel to know how worthless I was, and how unworthy I was for Him to die for me.
And just as it is written in 2 Cor 7:10, "Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation, not to be repented of."
I sorrowed to repentance, (turned from sin), was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of those sins, and received the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
Thanks be to God.
Does this mean that the believe (sic) does nothing good?
Believer?
True believers do plenty that is good.
That is what faith, hope, ad charity is all about.
Of course it doesn't mean that. If you think that's what I'm saying then you are frankly unqualified to even be having this discussion.
I am certainly glad you don't think that.
What is means is that our actions, whether good or bad, DO NOT contribute to our righteousness!
Bad "actions" manifest we are not believers.
Good "actions" manifest our belief in an all holy God.
Note that I said "righteousness" and not "salvation". I am not talking, as you suggest, about works having to do with our salvation. No one here believes that our works have anything to do with our salvation. What I'm telling you is that they have exactly the same amount of value toward our righteousness.
The works of the Law have nothing to do with our salvation.
By "works", I mean circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, temple worship, etc.
Good deeds and charity are manifestations of our righteousness: not the cause of our righteousness.
YOU ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU DO!!!!
I do what I do because I am righteous.
It is written..."Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:7)
You are made righteous before God because of what you believe. Every good work you perform outside of that context is of your flesh and it will be burned up on that Great Day.
That makes it clear to me that the doers of unrighteousness don't believe.
Agreed?
Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Be aware that the "works" mentioned here are again the "works of the Law, ie., circumcision, dietary rules, etc.
Christ is the beginning, the end, and everything in between. He is the foundation and He is the roof. He is the whole of the Christian life. We labor rightly, He brings the increase, not us. Any progress that is made, is in spite of us not because of us. Our only mode of success in the Christian life is to crucify our flesh and get out of God's way.
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.​
I am so glad you do realize the non-Law works we do are actually the works of God by us.
The key is to understand that we are not becoming righteous but that we ARE righteous! Our relationship with God cannot be improved upon by our effort because it is not based upon our efforts. Tell me, what do you think the result would be if you attempted to improve something that was perfect? Would you improve it or damage it?
I wouldn't be able to call it a sinner.
And, I would harken unto Peter, and wouldn't stop praying that I would grow in grace and knowledge.
"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." (1 Peter 3:18)

 

Hoping

Well-known member
Only one of us is right.
No, as there are two meanings for "works".
Salvation and sanctification are achieved the same way, by faith. (Galatians 3:3)
Amen.
I see legalism as any good deed done for the purpose of improving one's relationship with God.
Too bad.
As the good I do makes me feel closer to Jesus and to His Father.
The study I do makes me grow in grace and knowledge.
How can that hinder one's relationship with God?
Not consciously.
Not unconsciously either.
Jesus, Peter, James, at al. All of the disciples, apostles and biblical authors, save one, were all called into relationship with God through the law of Moses. They followed the law, were zealous for the law and taught their followers to do the same (Acts 21:20) and they did so until their natural death.
Hardly, as they all picked and prepped corn on the Sabbath.
Some went unto the houses of Gentiles and even ate with them.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
The church age did NOT begin in Acts 2. Pentecost was (is) a Jewish feast day. It comes in line after the feasts of Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits. In other words, Jesus was still in the process of fulfilling Old Testament prophecy and the program for Israel was still fully intact as of the events of Acts chapter 2. This is confirmed by what Peter preached in that same chapter and by their actions in the chapters immediately following.
Agreed, as there were already 120 folks in the church before the day of Pentecost.
If you "Obey Jesus" in the way you're meaning it, then you're a practicing Jew.
I am, after all, grafted into the branch. (Rom 11:17-24)
Those who disobey Jesus will only inherit a lake of fire.
If you actually obey Jesus and believe the gospel which He gave by revelation to the Apostle Paul, then there's no need to feel guilty about anything!
Agreed.
As my belief has resulted in a life of righteousness.
I've been clear. It is your own doctrine which clouds your vision.
I am grateful to have learned the ways of God.
Jesus IS NOT your King! Not in the manner you mean it, anyway. Your every thought has Israel and the church entangled in such a tight knot that confusing the two is intuitive and impossible to avoid.
They are inseparable.
Name any bible writer who was not a Jew.
You are not a member of the House of Israel nor will you ever be!
Agreed, but I subsist of the same root they do.
When Christ sits on David's throne, you will NOT be one of His subjects! At most, you will be under His authority as a visitor from a foreign land and only that if you decided to come down from Heaven to visit Jerusalem or something.
Interesting concept, but so divisive.
This is a paradigm level issue. You are quite incapable of seeing it and the only reason I know which of us is right and which is wrong is because I grew up within YOUR paradigm and can both clearly.
OK.
But please continue to say which kinds of works you refer to. (Works of the Law...circumcision, dietary rules, etc, or Good deeds rooted in Christ.)
So many seem to get them intertwined when they really have nothing to do with each other.
That last sentence is the most important sentence you've read in the last ten years. Don't ignore it.
Clete
OK.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
WAIT!

You're the idiot that believes he doesn't ever sin!

What the Hell am I doing even talking to you at all?

Do not respond to any of my other posts. I won't read it.

You aren't a Christian at all. You belong to a cult. You will go to Hell if you do not repent. Every breath you take furthers your sin!
Repent of not sinning?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
It would be nice if there were a place where you could put a note that explains why you've put someone on ignore. I took Hoping off ignore and it lasted less than 48 hours before he said something that reminded me of his cult teaching nonsense about believing that he is sinless. What degree of intellectual perversion does one have to reach in order to get convinced that such a state is even possible? And then what self-aggrandizing hubris does it require to not only believe that you're the one its happened too but to go around telling people that you're the one it's happened too!

The arrogance is breath taking! It's makes L. Ron Hubbard look like a pillar of humility and meekness!

Clete
 

Hoping

Well-known member
It would be nice if there were a place where you could put a note that explains why you've put someone on ignore. I took Hoping off ignore and it lasted less than 48 hours before he said something that reminded me of his cult teaching nonsense about believing that he is sinless. What degree of intellectual perversion does one have to reach in order to get convinced that such a state is even possible? And then what self-aggrandizing hubris does it require to not only believe that you're the one its happened too but to go around telling people that you're the one it's happened too!

The arrogance is breath taking! It's makes L. Ron Hubbard look like a pillar of humility and meekness!

Clete
It is written...
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as you Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt 5:48)

“I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
I love God's words.
 

Jenkins

Active member
I have done most of those things, because of the grace of God in me.
Because of the new nature God has provided for me.
Routinely?
I work at a food bank.
I wouldn't be able to call myself a Christian with a straight face if I didn't do those things.

What do you routinely do to glorify God and manifest both the life and death of our Savior?
So by your admission, you do not love all of your neighbors as you love yourself, just partially at times.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I just quoted to you the last phrase in the Sanderson bit you posted. Do you disagree with what Sanderson said? If you do, why post it?
What are you talking about?

I assume you meant Stanford rather than Sanderson but you asked whether I thought he was in error and I said "No" not even knowing exactly what it was you were referring to. In other words, I was being flippant because your question is unanswerable with any substance because I was being left with the task of reading your mind in order to understand where you wanted to lead me with your single sentence post.

Regardless, if I said he wasn't in error, how then do you come with this "If I disagree...." question?

I don't disagree with what I quoted, which I'm not even sure that we're talking about the same quote.

Post more than single sentence posts and this sort of waste of time confusion won't happen. Text based web forums are not intended for people who are either too busy or too lazy to put their actual thoughts into words.

Clete

P.S. I just found the quote you're referring to (which was not in the post you had quoted when you asked the question, by the way) and I don't have the quote connected with Sanderson in my head. I don't know Sanderson and don't quote him because he said it. I just quote the material based on the veracity of the material and mostly ignore the author.

My original answer stands. No, I do not disagree with what I quoted. What have I said that would make you think I would disagree with it?
 
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Jenkins

Active member
What are you talking about?

I assume you meant Stanford rather than Sanderson but you asked whether I thought he was in error and I said "No" not even knowing exactly what it was you were referring to. In other words, I was being flippant because your question is unanswerable with any substance because I was being left with the task of reading your mind in order to understand where you wanted to lead me with your single sentence post.

Regardless, if I said he wasn't in error, how then do you come with this "If I disagree...." question?

I don't disagree with what I quoted, which I'm not even sure that we're talking about the same quote.

Post more than single sentence posts and this sort of waste of time confusion won't happen. Text based web forums are not intended for people who are either too busy or too lazy to put their actual thoughts into words.

Clete

P.S. I just found the quote you're referring to (which was not in the post you had quoted when you asked the question, by the way) and I don't have the quote connected with Sanderson in my head. I don't know Sanderson and don't quote him because he said it. I just quote the material based on the veracity of the material and mostly ignore the author.

My original answer stands. No, I do not disagree with what I quoted. What have I said that would make you think I would disagree with it?
Does your love cause or help you to love all your neighbors just as you love yourself, as Stanford stated?

I am asking because I have never seen any person do that, and I would certainly not claim to do so myself.

Is the Second Command a hyperbolic concept, such as is Jesus' directive to chop off one's limb rather than continue to sin with it? If you do not know the correct answer please avoid faking it.
 

Hoping

Well-known member

Right Divider

Body part
I am not willing to ignore the written word.
Funny, you ignore its context. Which is bad and wrong.
Because you say so? Nope.
No, because I tell you the truth.
I could be telling the truth.
You know, the truth Jesus said would free us from committing sin, in John 8:32-34.
And YET later John writes about confessing sins. 1 John 1:9
Maybe you need to rethink your position.
Do you think Jesus would leave us in the same precarious position versus sin, after all He did for us to escape it?
Nothing "precarious" about my position in the body of Christ.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Funny, you ignore its context. Which is bad and wrong.
The context of the word of God is love.
You are saying it isn't true because it was written by a Christians Jew to other Jews.
I just can't agree.
No, because I tell you the truth.
you tell opinion.
And YET later John writes about confessing sins. 1 John 1:9
Maybe you need to rethink your position.
Some of the verses in 1 John 1 are addressing those who walk in darkness (sin).
Verse 9 is the remediation for sin, the first step to walking henceforth in the light (God)
Nothing "precarious" about my position in the body of Christ.
Isn't it good to be free from sinning?
Thanks be to God and to the name of His Son.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Does your love cause or help you to love all your neighbors just as you love yourself, as Stanford stated?
Why wouldn't it?

I am asking because I have never seen any person do that, and I would certainly not claim to do so myself.
Do what?

Is the Second Command a hyperbolic concept, such as is Jesus' directive to chop off one's limb rather than continue to sin with it? If you do not know the correct answer please avoid faking it.
The second command?

Look, I'm done trying to read your mind. The next time you post something cryptic or nonsensical, I'll ignore it. If you persist, I'll ignore you altogether.

Clete
 
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