What is a Christian fundamentalist?

[PureX]

Originally posted by jjjg We test the subjective with experience and arrive at what is.

Well, not exactly. We test our subjective ideas about what is the truth of reality through experience with reality, but we experience reality only partially, so the results of our "tests" are never absolutely conclusive. They can indicate truthfulness, but they can never be considered absolute. We arrive at a better (partial) idea of what is, but "what is" is still so much greater than we can grasp that our better idea is still incomplete and subject to doubt.

Originally posted by jjjg In order to make a relationship, we have to know something about the essntial nature what we are relating.

Yeah, but what we think we know about those things we are relating to each other came from previous relationships we observed between these things and others. And the first relationships that we have with things is the relationship they have to us. So it's all relative, to ourselves. And I still don't know what you mean by the term "essential nature" in this case. How many parts of anything do we have to remove before it loses it's "essential nature"? And who decided on this essential number of parts?

Originally posted by jjjg The only way we know the difference between subjective ideas and reality as is is through reason.

Reason doesn't really exist without experience. Reason without experience is ... what .... fantasy?, imagination?

 

[jjjg]

They don't have to be absolutely conclusive. They just have to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Nobody says that human reason is not limited. Our knowledge involves through reason and reflection. You hung up on this "you must have absolute knowledge." The models in our mind are true models even if they are inadequate.

No, we know things in themselves as their essential natures otherwise we could not make a relationship in our mind.

The point is you say what we reason might not be what is, but obviously we can differentiate between subjective ideas and what is and know what is through human reason. Otherwise you could never make the statements you do.

Physical science abstracts the various phenomena from individual substances, math abstracts the quantity. Ontology finaly abstracts what is left - the essence, existence, substance and causality.

 

[smaller]

A Christian fundamentalist is a person who will defend the Deity of Christ to the extent that the fundamentalist will condemn another person to be burned in fire forever for not believing in the Deity of Christ,

....and in the process completely and totally IGNORE the Command of said "Deity" to "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself."

go figure

 

[smaller]

A Christian fundamentalist is one who will acknowledge that God does not have a DESCRIPTION, yet DAMN YOU TO BURN in FIRE FOREVER for denying his description of God.

go figure

A Christian fundamentalist believes that God is Sovereign, yet a nearly complete failure.

go figure

A Christian fundamentalist believes that the "Accepted Text" is WITHOUT A SINGLE FLAW, has to offer NO explainations for contradictions, nor the NEED to attempt to explain contradictions, and will damn you to eternal torture for questioning such things.

go figure

Shall we continue?

 

[temple2006]

Post #178 of 181

quote:
Originally posted by temple 2000

BK...I was not insinuating anything. I was making a statement of fact and it is backed up by the very thing you people love ...LOGIC.
Grace and peace.



Which statement of fact is that? You've got 4 posts on this thread.
Most of them are hit and run posts. You assert and then run.

I don't run. I am here anytime you want to talk to me so what's your problem?
quote:

You people (the fundamentalists) cannot understand that for human beings everything is faith , not absolute knowledge. The only thing that we know is that we do not know, therefore we must believe.



Actually we people (the fundamentalists) understand that some things are a matter of faith and some are not and that faith and fact are not diametric opposites. And if the only thing we know is that we don't know, they we don't really know if we don't know..

So though that statement is pithy, its not really all that helpful.

It is not helpful because you do not understand it and it is self-evident.
quote:

Apparently everyone has me on their ignore list, but I just have to comment on the stupidity of the things you people argue about. These things are self-evident to the thinking man.



Well the thinking man also tends to back up their arguments. Thanks for your comments though, maybe you should try to figure out how it is that, "all we know is that we don't know,” Before you start assigning the status of stupidity to other’s arguments.


You can make yourself dizzy on the self contradiction of your own principle.

How in the world do you back up self-evident things? Tell me what is it exactly that you KNOW.

 

[jjjg]

Maybe I'm being a bit unfair, Purex.

The argument is really to think is to condition. The absolute is the unconditioned so how can we even think about it?

Well the truth is conditioning affects the process we go about thinking and not what we can think. We can know something of the absolute but in a relative way and we have to be careful of the language we use to understand it.

This is obvious because we can define the absolute as that which is unconditioned and exists in itself. If we couldn't even think about it, we couldn't even define it.

Relativism as an absolute doctrine of human knowledge contradicts itself.

 

[PureX]

Originally posted by jjjg The argument is really to think is to condition. The absolute is the unconditioned so how can we even think about it?

I agree with this, but it begins to take us to another level of discussion. I think that to reach the place where the "absolute" becomes relevant we have to enter the area of mysticism. I think other folks have brought this up on other threads, before, too. For the concept of absolute truth/reality to become relevant to human experience, we're going to have to get past our natural inclination toward dualism, and leave behind conceptions of existence that rely on understanding things by their relationships to each other. Then we can begin to perceive existence as a single whole, and thus as an "absolute truth".

I am happy to discuss this as far as I am able, but it is a whole new discussion, I think. And I'm not sure how far we could go into this area, anyway, as mysticism does not lend itself much to discussion. It basically has to be experienced.

I do agree with what you're saying, here, though. And I do agree that when we really dig into BOTH our concepts of relativism, and our concept of the absolute, we sooner or later end up at a contradiction. In a strange way, it's as if all roads lead to mysticism, eventually. Which is I guess how the mystics got there. *smile*

 

[jjjg]

Sounds good, Purex. I'll look into it and come up with some arguments.

 

[geralduk]

Originally posted by smaller

A Christian fundamentalist is a person who will defend the Deity of Christ to the extent that the fundamentalist will condemn another person to be burned in fire forever for not believing in the Deity of Christ,

....and in the process completely and totally IGNORE the Command of said "Deity" to "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself."

go figure

What folly!

For even if a man DID condemn another to hell.
He could not do so for it is only God we should fear that not only can kill the body but send the sould to hell also.

Why then should you be so concerned by anothers (in your perception) condemning men to hell.
If God has opned a door of salvation then none can close it.
Likewise if God closes it none can open it.

Thus if a man rejects the truth concerning the diety of CHRIST then it is not man they contend with but God.
is it not true that the LORD JESUS CHRIST was GOD and the WORD made flesh?
Then how then can THAT be changed?
What then can man do ?
For if he believes NOT the truth what hope has he?
and if he does beleiev the truth he ahs a "SURE AND CERTAIN HOPE"

yOU ON THE OTHER HAND SEEM TO BELIVE that no matter WHAT a person belives there is ALWAYS the SAME conclusion!

But how can this be?

Jesus said I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE"
He that eateth My flesh and drinketh My blood hath LIFE ,it folows then that they who do not have not!

Or do you say that thye who do NOT recieve the SAME things that those who do do?

Are you saying that thye who believe and loveth a LIE will receive HIM who is the truth?
How may I ask can this be so?

Is God not RIGHTOUS?
and a s ABRAHAM found out "the JUST JUDGE and the MORAL GOVENER of the WHOLE earth"?

Are yuu saying that there were NOT men IN sodom? WHO WERE as MEN the same as LOT?

Yet where as they FOLOWED the lusts and the desires of their sinfull flesh.
LOT DID NOT!
AND they who yeiled thier members unto UNRIGHTOUSNESS condemned him who yelided hsi members unto rightousness.

Do you then say that either they did NOT deserve thier condemnation and judgement?
or that they were NOT MEN?

Why do you fail to see that ALL have sinned and have come short of the glory of God?
and that if NONE should REPENT ALL should PERISH!?

More that if God had "not made a way where therte was no way"
Then there would be NO HOPE for ANY!
bUT IN THAT God in the garden gave a PROMISE of a savior and therefore HOPE and then a COVERING for sin.
It was then as always GODS intention that men have the LIBERTY to do what is RIGHT AND GOOD.
the FIRST thing then is to REPENT!
AND BELIEVE ON HIM whom God promised and fullfiled in CHRIST.
Able believed God CAINE DID NOT.
Able then was "COUNTED RIGHTOUS"
Caine manifested his wickedness.
and found no place of repentance for he believed not and rejected the BLOOD SACRAFICE of CHRIST

You therefore DENY the JUST AND RIGHTOUS judgements of God.
By saying that ALL men are saved wether they repent or not.
and also DENY men any TRUE HOPE and HINDER them if they believe you; from EVER finding the truth and getting saved.
For you give them a false hope thta has NO basis in the scripture.


Yous ay God has failed if not all are saved?
That is YOUR reasoning not Gods.
fOR THE SEED THAT IS FRUITFULL will produce more fruit and seed than the one which does not .
God is intersted in FRUIT and that"which remains"!
and to THAT end HE Has SOWN.
"For it is for the joy that was set before Him He endured the cross"
Thus though the CALL is to ALL it is the WHO SOEVERS that ANSWER that call will receive the promise.

For GOD so loved the WORLD (that is ALL.)
That WHOSOEVER (that is PERSONAL and INDIVIDUAL_) believeth on Him shall NOT perish but have everlasting life"

 

[smaller]

smaller said:
A Christian fundamentalist is a person who will defend the Deity of Christ to the extent that the fundamentalist will condemn another person to be burned in fire forever for not believing in the Deity of Christ,

....and in the process completely and totally IGNORE the Command of said "Deity" to "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself."

go figure

And geralduk says:
"What folly!"

Do we have another fundie in the house or what? I rest my case.

Typical SELF RIGHTEOUS, SELF JUSTIFICATION nonsense. Take ONE WORD and DENY THE OTHER nearly in the same breath.

This is a classic case of SEVERE and IRRATIONAL UNbelief.

smaller

 

[smaller]

What is a fundamentalist?

Someone who thinks they are led by The Holy Spirit, but who sees no problem with said Holy Spirit leading them and all other fundamentalists to thousands of conflicting/opposed positions.

go figure

 

[On Fire]

Originally posted by Apollo

Never been big on math, but this much I know: When you add one Christian fundamentalist with ZERO sense to another Christian fundamentalist with ZERO sense, it adds up to NON-sense.

Similarly, when you add one ignorant atheist with ZERO experience with God to another ignorant atheist with ZERO experience with God, it adds up to NOTHING.

 

[Duder]

Geralduk -

I WISH you would try to post nice, smooth messages, UNINTERRUPTED by unnecessary changes IN text appearance. I AM sure you have very INTERESTING things to SAY, BUT THE appearance of THE message makes it TOO HARD TO read.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Originally posted by Duder

Geralduk -

I WISH you would try to post nice, smooth messages, UNINTERRUPTED by unnecessary changes IN text appearance. I AM sure you have very INTERESTING things to SAY, BUT THE appearance of THE message makes it TOO HARD TO read.

When I read Geralduk I get the impression someone is
SHOUTING! at me...

It is hard to consider the content when a voice in my head
is SHOUTING!

djm

 

[LightSon]

Originally posted by PureX
Fundamentalism is the irrational assumption of one's own truthfulness. It's irrational because it is not being tested against reality in any logical or (I would say) honest way.

Once again, your arbitrary definition of fundamentalism puts us in a bad light. Thanks, but no thanks.

Fundamentalism is the rational assumption that God exists and that He has revealed His will in the scriptures and that we can, if led by His Spirit discern His will.

My faith leads me to trust in God as He has revealed Himself.

Originally posted by PureX
We humans develop ideas about what is real and true in our minds, but we have to keep testing those ideas against actual reality, through experience, to establish their relative truthfulness. This is the step that fundamentalists ignore.

We fundamentalists are being tested in the crucible of life's reality every day.

Your philosophy is nihilism; it offers no hope. Because my God and His inspired Word offer me hope, you dismiss this as some "opiate of the people". Your position makes me profoundly sad.

To the degree that my faith increases, my confidence in God increases. Were I to jettison my faith, I would then find myself in the godless state that you propose. Yes I know that you allow for a god, but as far as I can tell your god is useless, unable to impart eternal life, powerless to make himself known.

If God is not, then we are just a random happenstance, a chance intersection of improbably conditions. We have no eternal value, no purpose in being here. We may as well eat, drink and make ourselves merry because tomorrow we make embark on our eternal state of being dust. :down:

Again, I have not made up a god in the way that you have. I have allowed Him to show Himself to me. I seek Him everyday. I choose to trust Him with my life, both now and after my body expires. You trust in yourself and your keen ability to know nothing for sure. I see no reason to exchange the hope imparted to me for a confidence in no thing.

It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Psalm 118:8

 

[smaller]

What is a christian fundamentalist?

Someone who has sinned and has sin, just like everyone else.

 

[LightSon]

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

But that fact does not distinquish a Christian Fundamentalist from any one else. Does God have a people that He reserves for Himself?

Does Christ mean anything?

The smaller philosophy is:
Believe in Christ & reap eternal blessing.

Spit on Christ & reap eternal blessing.

In short, all men will reap eternal blessing and Christ can be factored out and jettisoned.

Hence, in smallerism, Christ means nothing.

Don't you have anything else to share besides this tired old hobby horse?

 

[smaller]

But that fact does not distinquish a Christian Fundamentalist from any one else. Does God have a people that He reserves for Himself?

God says:

"Behold, all souls are mine," saith the Lord. "As the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine." Ezek. 18:4

The smaller philosophy is:
Believe in Christ & reap eternal blessing.

Spit on Christ & reap eternal blessing.

Ah, excuse me, but that would be your false accusation of my position.

The only thing you show is poor reading and comprehension skills. So what else is new?

The SIN THAT INDWELLS men who SPIT ON CHRIST is CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL DESTRUCTION.

You always forget this part because you only see SIN IN OTHERS and NOT YOURSELF

or

you see YOURSELF as forgiven BUT not OTHERS...

go figure you Christ Limiter.

I could post on the anti-spiritual ignorance that runs rampant in christian fundamentalism for WEEKS and you would have no rebuttal but TO ACCUSE because that is what is IN YOU.

smaller

 

[On Fire]

Originally posted by smaller
The SIN THAT INDWELLS men who SPIT ON CHRIST is CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL DESTRUCTION.

What does this mean?

Also, what will happen to the people who have not accepted Christ upon His return?

 

[Apollo]

A religious fundamentalist is one who accepts as reality what everyone else understands as a myth.

Tickles me pink when the brethren start name-calling. I forget -- how does the world know you're "Christians"? Oh yeah, by the LOVE you show for one another!

Smaller! You Rock!