ECT What does it mean to be dead to sin?

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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How does this passage relate to our need to rule over "vanity"?:


"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2 (KJV)
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

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Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job;

and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God,

and eschewed evil.

To JOB , anything Evil was Eschewed.
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05493 סור cuwr soor or שׂור suwr (#Ho 9:12) soor

a primitive root; v; [BDB-693a] {See TWOT on 1480 }

AV-(put, take,*…*) away 97, depart 76,
remove 35, aside 29,
take 14, turn 12, turn in 9, take off 6, go 3, put 3, eschewed

1) to turn aside, depart
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to turn aside, turn in unto
1a2) to depart, depart from way, avoid
1a3) to be removed
1a4) to come to an end
1b) (Polel) to turn aside
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to cause to turn aside, cause to depart, remove,
take away, put away, depose
1c2) to put aside, leave undone, retract, reject, abolish
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
How does this passage relate to our need to rule over "vanity"?:


"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2 (KJV)
Click to expand...

We received a sin nature because of Adam's and Eve's sin.

We are dead to that sin nature. We never have to succumb to our sin nature.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Cross Reference said:
How does this passage relate to our need to rule over "vanity"?:


"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2 (KJV)
Click to expand...

This is how I currently understand it looking at the context. Paul is trying to convince them not to continue in living under the law of Moses which is sin and death. If they die with Christ, they will no longer be bound to the law that had no provision for the forgiveness of sins.

Rom.7:2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband....4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God..... 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

He goes on to say that the law is righteous but mans inability to follow it produces sin.

Rom. 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

Again he says that in Christ they are set free from the law.

Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
How does this passage relate to our need to rule over "vanity"?:


"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2 (KJV)
Click to expand...

Paul goes on, in the same chapter, to elaborate :

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:11-14

Really, the whole chapter elaborates, but I think this gets to an important point. That as those brought into the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free (Galatians 5:1) that we remain in it. When in liberty, we are no longer bound to sin. And a big part of that is not being bound to an external law. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Walk as children of light (Eph 5:8)...as ye have therefore received Christ, so walk in Him (Col 2:6)...if we walk in the light as He is in the light, then we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7)...He that saith he abideth in Him ought also so to walk, even as He walked (1 John 2:6).
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
nikolai_42 said:
Paul goes on, in the same chapter, to elaborate :

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:11-14

Really, the whole chapter elaborates, but I think this gets to an important point. That as those brought into the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free (Galatians 5:1) that we remain in it. When in liberty, we are no longer bound to sin. And a big part of that is not being bound to an external law. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Walk as children of light (Eph 5:8)...as ye have therefore received Christ, so walk in Him (Col 2:6)...if we walk in the light as He is in the light, then we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7)...He that saith he abideth in Him ought also so to walk, even as He walked (1 John 2:6).
Click to expand...

Is Paul talking about law in general or a specific law, like the Mosaical law?
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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turbosixx said:
This is how I currently understand it looking at the context. Paul is trying to convince them not to continue in living under the law of Moses which is sin and death.
Click to expand...

The "law of Moses" is totally irrelevant. Vanity is vanity. It is a law unto itself subjected to man whether he is in Moses or in Christ. One needs no seminary training to tell him that.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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turbosixx said:
I'm not sure I understand your point.
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Sorry, I mis-wrote: It should have read "man was subjected to vanity", not the other way around. My bad.

The salvation of God, as intended by Him (John 17:3 KJV), is arrived at by moral choices. Adam proved that was the issue for his being able to advance in God's purposes for him. God subjected man to vanity with a hope man would understand the issue involved when he is compelled to choose between obedience unto God or disobedience that leads him away from God. Both influences are laws unto themselves. Whichever one man obeys will reveal whose servant he is.

See Rom.8:20 KJV.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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Cross Reference said:
Sorry, I mis-wrote: It should have read "man was subjected to vanity", not the other way around. My bad.

The salvation of God, as intended by Him (John 17:3 KJV), is arrived at by moral choices. Adam proved that was the issue for his being able to advance in God's purposes for him. God subjected man to vanity with a hope man would understand the issue involved when he is compelled to choose between obedience unto God or disobedience that leads him away from God. Both influences are laws unto themselves. Whichever one man obeys will reveal whose servant he is.

See Rom.8:20 KJV.
Click to expand...


I agree with the obedience and disobedience, but what Paul is dealing with in Romans is Jews who wanted to stick with the Mosaical law that they had been under for 1,500 years that could not save them because it had no provision for the forgiveness of sins. He is not dealing with law in general.

Rom. 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,.....17 But if you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law,

To reject the law of Christ and continue in the Mosaical law is death.

Gal. 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Sorry if I missed your main point, I wasn't sure how that scripture deals with vanity so I just commented on what I understand it to deal with.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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turbosixx said:
To reject the law of Christ and continue in the Mosaical law is death.
Click to expand...

To live a futile or vain life is also death. Refusing to live by any law that comes against me, is a demonstration of rebelliousness.

Sorry if I missed your main point, I wasn't sure how that scripture deals with vanity so I just commented on what I understand it to deal with.
Click to expand...
No worries.

Try this out:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15 (KJV)

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, [lives vain life] is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4 (KJV)
Click to expand...
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
How does this passage relate to our need to rule over "vanity"?:


"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2 (KJV)
Click to expand...


Hi , and since I know that OSAS is not your theology , what does DEAD mean in Rom 6:2 ?

Can a dead man walk ?

Can a dead man commit sin ?

Can a Dead Man have a New Nature living within ?

In verse 2 , " are dead " is in the Past Tense and that points to the beginning of anyone salvation !

Do we say or consider ourselfs dead to sin ?

We live by Faith as Gal 2:20 says NOT by a Dead Person !!

Also in verse 2 , " live /zao " is in the Greek Future Tense , what does that mean ?

dan p
 
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