ECT WHAT ACTS 2 PEOPLE CAN NOT SEE IN JOHN 10:16 !!

DAN P

New member
Hi to all and so-called Pentecost people like to show that Jesus has OTHER SHEEP but never explain who these other sheep ARE !!

Some HEM and HAW that they are the GENTILES but do not have any proof !!

John 10:16 reads , And other SHEEP I have which are NOT of this FOLD , them also must I bring and they SHALL HEAR my voice , and there SHALL BE one FOLD , and one Shepard <

#1 Here is what they FAIL to see here is that the OTHER Sheep are yet to enter the sheep gate !!

#2 , So where are those SHEEP now , pray tell ?? They can not say where they are !!

#3, The first Greek verb I HAVE , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and that means NOW !!

#4 , And He MUST BRING is also in the Greek AORIST TENSE in Jesus time , He will bring them IN !!

#5, But the Greek verb HEAR and THERE SHALL BE are in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and that means those SHEEP are yet to be brought into the FOLD !!

#6 , Those are the SHEEP that are saved during the GREAT TRIBULATION !!

John 10:16 has NOTHING to do with the Body of Christ OR otherwise Jesus would have said so !!

Paul NEVER calls the Body of Christ SHEEP as sheep are DUMB and need a PENTECOATAL SHEPARD to survive , where Grace believers are part of Christ !!

dan p
 

ZacharyB

New member
John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold;
them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice;
and there will be one flock and one shepherd.


While Jesus was evangelizing the Jews,
no one had yet received the Holy Spirit.
For the Holy Spirit had not yet come.

Paul was sent to evangelize the Gentiles.
Future Gentile believers are the other sheep.
Paul explains a lot about the one flock being
made up of both Jew and Gentile believers.
 

northwye

New member
When Jesus spoke John 10: 16 the beginning of the fulfillment of Hosea 2: 23 in Acts 10 was future from that time.
 

DAN P

New member
John 10:16
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold;
them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice;
and there will be one flock and one shepherd.


While Jesus was evangelizing the Jews,
no one had yet received the Holy Spirit.
For the Holy Spirit had not yet come.

Paul was sent to evangelize the Gentiles.
Future Gentile believers are the other sheep.
Paul explains a lot about the one flock being
made up of both Jew and Gentile believers.


Hi and my #6 point explains when Gentiles are saved , so read Matt 25 :33 and there are 3 groups mentioned here , THE SAVED JEWS in Rom 11:26 THE GENTILE SHEEP NATIONS IN Matt 25:33 and THE GOAT and the standard for judgement are in Matt 25:35-46 !!

dan p
 
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Danoh

New member
When Jesus spoke John 10: 16 the beginning of the fulfillment of Hosea 2: 23 in Acts 10 was future from that time.

Nope - ALL of Hosea is ALL about Israel.

This is Paul's "As he saith ALSO in Osee..." Rom. 9:26.

The PROPHETIC order is....

Turn from them in His wrath for their rebellion.

Not pour out His wrath, but turn from them in His wrath...for a time.

Do something else He had planned on doing during His turn from them in His wrath for their rebellion.

Accomplish this something else.

Then...return to the issue of dealing with Israel in His wrath.

Pouring out said wrath...

Prior to His mercy unto them...

For this is My covenant unto them.

Where the Reformed School got it wrong is in that which even a child comes to understand.

Its' moms' anouncemnt in her anger "wait til your father gets home" (returns) followed by a resulting delay of the coming "hell to pay" followed by its' parents' mercy.

Its' mom's "go to your room til your father gets home" is much like the delay of the Father's pending wrath after His turn from Israel in His wrath.

And only an unfit parent REMAINS angery with its' child AFTER the issues that had provoked said parent to wrath...have been dealt with.

In this, even the Preterist ends up proving that 70AD was NOT the end as to God and Jacob.

Those who assert otherwise are merely in unbelief in their ignorance of the above simple difference between God's temporary turn from Israel in His wrath...followed by His doing something else during said temporary turn from Israel in His wrath...just as He'd planned...followed by His turning back to Israel to pour out His wrath...followed by His mercy upon Israel...

70AD?

It took place DURING God's TEMPORARY turn from Israel in His wrath...

Rome was NOT God's hand upon Israel.

HE has YET turned BACK UNTO THEM to FIRST pour out His wrath UPON them PRIOR TO His EQUALLY PROPHESIED Mercy UPON "ye sons OF JACOB."

The Reformed has it wrong.

The Acts 2 Dispy has it wrong.

The Almost Acts 28er Dispy has it wrong.

The Acts 28er Dispy has it wrong.

Only the consistent Acts 9 Dispy has it right.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

When, per what Paul has been dissecting in Romans 9-11?

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

How?

Per..."as it is written..."

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Until then...but nevertheless...

11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Why nevertheless...

11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Until then His delay AND His doing of something other than as to Israel...once more...just as had been the case in Hosea's day...

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

What NOW - What is He waiting for NOW - He has proven His case - what NOW - why can't He just pour out His wrath and get on with it!

9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

turbosixx

New member
This looks like the Gentiles being brought into the fold when in Christ the two are made into one. It's also after Christ's words in John 10.


Eph. 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
 

DAN P

New member
This looks like the Gentiles being brought into the fold when in Christ the two are made into one. It's also after Christ's words in John 10.


Eph. 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

Hi and in Gal 3:28 the Jews and Greek and Free and Slaves and Male and Females become ONE IN Christ and all in the Body are a new man in Christ !!

dan p
 

turbosixx

New member
That's my point, Jews and Gentiles anyone and everyone in the same FOLD, just as Jesus said in Jn. 10.
 

DAN P

New member
That's my point, Jews and Gentiles anyone and everyone in the same FOLD, just as Jesus said in Jn. 10.
Hi and if you believe Gal 3:28 , THEN there will be no Jews or Greek an no MALE nor Females !!

There will be no Israel and no Kingdom of Heaven !!

By the way , where in John 10?

dan p
 

turbosixx

New member
Yes I believe Gal. 3:28. Do you not believe that those in Christ are one?

You haven't addressed the scripture I referenced where the Jews and Gentiles are made ONE in Christ. Eph. 2:11-14. That's what I beleive Jesus is talking about in Jn. 10 in you OP.

The problem I have if the church isn't the fold that contains both Jew and Gentile is (1) God has two peoples with two different paths to salvation one without Jesus, (2) when Jesus sets up his "Millennial" kingdom for the "Jews" then there will still be two groups. When will the fold be one?
 

DAN P

New member
Yes I believe Gal. 3:28. Do you not believe that those in Christ are one?

You haven't addressed the scripture I referenced where the Jews and Gentiles are made ONE in Christ. Eph. 2:11-14. That's what I beleive Jesus is talking about in Jn. 10 in you OP.

The problem I have if the church isn't the fold that contains both Jew and Gentile is (1) God has two peoples with two different paths to salvation one without Jesus, (2) when Jesus sets up his "Millennial" kingdom for the "Jews" then there will still be two groups. When will the fold be one?


Hi AND HERE IN Eph 2:11 Paul IS Talking to GENTILES , called the GENTILE or Un-circumcision and the Jews are ALWAYS called the Circumcision and has NOTHING to do with John 10 at ALL !!

All the verbs that in Eph 2:11 are in the PRESENT TENSE and that means they are ONLY in the dispensation of Grace and not in John 10:16 !!

If you really believed in Gal 3:28 you would be AGREEING with me , PERIOD , so you do not understand what Gal 3:28 really means as Gal 3:28 has more than 12 different applications !!

dan p
 

Danoh

New member
Yes I believe Gal. 3:28. Do you not believe that those in Christ are one?

You haven't addressed the scripture I referenced where the Jews and Gentiles are made ONE in Christ. Eph. 2:11-14. That's what I beleive Jesus is talking about in Jn. 10 in you OP.

The problem I have if the church isn't the fold that contains both Jew and Gentile is (1) God has two peoples with two different paths to salvation one without Jesus, (2) when Jesus sets up his "Millennial" kingdom for the "Jews" then there will still be two groups. When will the fold be one?

Turbo, you old nemesis of Mid-Acts; how ya been, bro :)
 

dodge

New member
Hi to all and so-called Pentecost people like to show that Jesus has OTHER SHEEP but never explain who these other sheep ARE !!

Some HEM and HAW that they are the GENTILES but do not have any proof !!

John 10:16 reads , And other SHEEP I have which are NOT of this FOLD , them also must I bring and they SHALL HEAR my voice , and there SHALL BE one FOLD , and one Shepard <

#1 Here is what they FAIL to see here is that the OTHER Sheep are yet to enter the sheep gate !!

#2 , So where are those SHEEP now , pray tell ?? They can not say where they are !!

#3, The first Greek verb I HAVE , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and that means NOW !!

#4 , And He MUST BRING is also in the Greek AORIST TENSE in Jesus time , He will bring them IN !!

#5, But the Greek verb HEAR and THERE SHALL BE are in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and that means those SHEEP are yet to be brought into the FOLD !!

#6 , Those are the SHEEP that are saved during the GREAT TRIBULATION !!

John 10:16 has NOTHING to do with the Body of Christ OR otherwise Jesus would have said so !!

Paul NEVER calls the Body of Christ SHEEP as sheep are DUMB and need a PENTECOATAL SHEPARD to survive , where Grace believers are part of Christ !!

dan p


Dap P , you are on eternally dangerous ground contradicting Jesus. Paul is NO ONES savior as he said to follow him as he followed Jesus


Jesus said:

Jhn 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jhn 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jhn 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



If you are NOT one of Jesus' sheep you have no part in the BOC. That is not my opinion that is what Jesus said.
 

turbosixx

New member
Hi AND HERE IN Eph 2:11 Paul IS Talking to GENTILES , called the GENTILE or Un-circumcision and the Jews are ALWAYS called the Circumcision and has NOTHING to do with John 10 at ALL !!
It does have to do with Jn.10. The Jews are the sheep he has (present tense) and the Gentiles are the sheep he will (future tense) bring into the fold who hear his voice. We see the fullfilment in Eph. 2.



All the verbs that in Eph 2:11 are in the PRESENT TENSE and that means they are ONLY in the dispensation of Grace and not in John 10:16 !!
That's right, present tense because Gentiles are now part of the fold.


If you really believed in Gal 3:28 you would be AGREEING with me , PERIOD , so you do not understand what Gal 3:28 really means as Gal 3:28 has more than 12 different applications !!

dan p
I believe Gal. 2:28, but I don't understand your point of view. The way I understand it, the Jews and Gentiles are exactly the same IN CHRIST spiritually, they are all sheep of the sheperd Christ.
 

DAN P

New member
It does have to do with Jn.10. The Jews are the sheep he has (present tense) and the Gentiles are the sheep he will (future tense) bring into the fold who hear his voice. We see the fullfilment in Eph. 2.




That's right, present tense because Gentiles are now part of the fold.



I believe Gal. 2:28, but I don't understand your point of view. The way I understand it, the Jews and Gentiles are exactly the same IN CHRIST spiritually, they are all sheep of the sheperd Christ.


Hi and the PRESENT TENSE in John 10:16 has to do with Jesus eartly ministry and NOT with the Present tense of the Grace or MYSTERY of God !!

CONTEXRRRRRRR is every thing in all verse and that is why the Greek word HEAR in John 10:16 is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and these SHEEP will hear His voice and Protect the Jews in the Gteat tribulation and these SHEEP are in Matt 25:33 !!

dan p
 

turbosixx

New member
Hi and the PRESENT TENSE in John 10:16 has to do with Jesus eartly ministry and NOT with the Present tense of the Grace or MYSTERY of God !!

I agree. The present tense is the flock he has before his D,B&R which is the Jews. The future tense will be the new flock of both Jews and Gentiles which is the church.

CONTEXRRRRRRR is every thing in all verse and that is why the Greek word HEAR in John 10:16 is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and these SHEEP will hear His voice and Protect the Jews in the Gteat tribulation and these SHEEP are in Matt 25:33 !!

dan p

I agree, context is everything. Matt. 25 is talking about the final judgement, look where these separated sheep and goats are going in verse 46.

As far as the hear, I agree with you again but it’s those who hear and believe the gospel. How are people added to the body of Christ but by hearing and believing? And the body of Christ is made up of the two flocks, Jews and Gentiles.
Eph. 3:6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
 

Danoh

New member
I agree. The present tense is the flock he has before his D,B&R which is the Jews. The future tense will be the new flock of both Jews and Gentiles which is the church.



I agree, context is everything. Matt. 25 is talking about the final judgement, look where these separated sheep and goats are going in verse 46.

As far as the hear, I agree with you again but it’s those who hear and believe the gospel. How are people added to the body of Christ but by hearing and believing? And the body of Christ is made up of the two flocks, Jews and Gentiles.
Eph. 3:6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

You missed it.

Christ was talking about those of Israel there in the land of the Jews that were already His in their belief in the Law and the Prophets and...of those of Israel that were scatterred but that also were His in their belief in the Law and the Prophets (other sheep not of this fold).

The Gentiles were then without hope and without God in the world...duh..uh.

You missed it...as usual.
 
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