ECT WHAT 1 Cor 2:14 IS SAYING TO ALL !!

DAN P

New member
Hi to all , and 1 Cor 2:14 reads like this , But the SOULISH man receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God , for it is FOOLISHNESS to him , and he CANNOT KNOW ( IT ) BEING SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED !!

#1 The first verb is RECEIVETH / DECHOMAI and is in thr Greek PRESENT TENSE , which put receiveth in the Dispensation of Grace !!

#2 , They are FOOLISHNESS to all men !!

#3, And the verb DISCERNED / ANAKINO is also in the Greek PERSENT TENSE which also places 1 Cor 2:14 in the Revelation of the MYSTERY !!

On an other post one Low Informational student says I refuse to say what church I belong too , and how I was saved is his busness !!

I know that when I ask HOW WERE YOU SAVED they can not answer because of the following :

And to my knowledge , I have NEVER said they are not SAVED because they believe that if they sin , they can be LOST and have REPENT all over agan which Heb 6:6 !!

#4 , I believe in Acts 2:38 !

#5 , I was born into a Chriatin family !!

#6 I prayed thgrough and spoke in Tongues as the evidence and proof !!

#7, They also claim that the Holy Spirit leads them to all truth and no need to study the bible !!

#8 , All Pentecostals that know have no assurance of Salvation , and I use to be ONE !!

#9 Pentecostals will never believe what is written in Ron 8:16 , which reads , The SPIRIT Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children , !!

This is what I see in Acts 16:14 we have the story of Lydia , who worshipped God heard Paul us , AND God , WHOSE HEART God OPENED !!

So God opens the HEART !!

That person than believes by the FAITH that God give , Eph 2:8 !!

Man heart believes and Confesses by Rom 10:9 you will be SAVED !!

dan p
 

Danoh

New member
Hi to all , and 1 Cor 2:14 reads like this , But the SOULISH man receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God , for it is FOOLISHNESS to him , and he CANNOT KNOW ( IT ) BEING SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED !!

#1 The first verb is RECEIVETH / DECHOMAI and is in thr Greek PRESENT TENSE , which put receiveth in the Dispensation of Grace !!

#2 , They are FOOLISHNESS to all men !!

#3, And the verb DISCERNED / ANAKINO is also in the Greek PERSENT TENSE which also places 1 Cor 2:14 in the Revelation of the MYSTERY !!

On an other post one Low Informational student says I refuse to say what church I belong too , and how I was saved is his busness !!

I know that when I ask HOW WERE YOU SAVED they can not answer because of the following :

And to my knowledge , I have NEVER said they are not SAVED because they believe that if they sin , they can be LOST and have REPENT all over agan which Heb 6:6 !!

#4 , I believe in Acts 2:38 !

#5 , I was born into a Chriatin family !!

#6 I prayed thgrough and spoke in Tongues as the evidence and proof !!

#7, They also claim that the Holy Spirit leads them to all truth and no need to study the bible !!

#8 , All Pentecostals that know have no assurance of Salvation , and I use to be ONE !!

#9 Pentecostals will never believe what is written in Ron 8:16 , which reads , The SPIRIT Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children , !!

This is what I see in Acts 16:14 we have the story of Lydia , who worshipped God heard Paul us , AND God , WHOSE HEART God OPENED !!

So God opens the HEART !!

That person than believes by the FAITH that God give , Eph 2:8 !!

Man heart believes and Confesses by Rom 10:9 you will be SAVED !!

dan p

The phrase is "low information" NOT "low informational."

Also...

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

The process behind how He opened her heart is described in the following...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

She did what unbelieving Israel would not - she heard Paul's preaching out...

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The same process described here also...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In each case; they heard out the Word preached unto them; chose to believe it, and it was then able to work in them...

Able to work what; has the power to result what in them that believe said Word?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 

Derf

Well-known member
The phrase is "low information" NOT "low informational."

Also...

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

The process behind how He opened her heart is described in the following...

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
...

notice also that Act 16:14 KJV says she worshiped God--before God opened her heart to Paul's teaching, presumably. So God no doubt already had influence in her life.

It certainly shouldn't be a dichotomy between "Rom 3:11 ...there is none who seeks after God" and "which worshiped God". So if we think it's dichotomous, we either have a misunderstanding of what it means to "seek after God", or what it means that "God opened her heart" after she was already a worshiper of God.

Same thing was true of Cornelius when he sent for Peter. Cornelius seemed to be seeking after God. Is it possible that Rom 3 is the misunderstood thing? Some would say that God already called both Lydia and Cornelius to the Jewish faith before they were introduced to Christ. That may be, but then it calls into question the phrase "whose heart the Lord opened". Did the Lord have to draw her (and Cornelius?) twice? Were they then regenerated twice, as some might use the word regeration?

Danoh's comments about what means were (was?) used to open her heart is a valid discussion in its own right, just like the proverb: Pro 21:1 KJV - The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Have you ever turned a stream? It's not impossible, but it requires putting blocks/dams in some places and digging channels in others. It's not that you make the water WANT to go a different direction.
 

DAN P

New member
notice also that Act 16:14 KJV says she worshiped God--before God opened her heart to Paul's teaching, presumably. So God no doubt already had influence in her life.

Hi and there was one before Lydia and read Acts 10:2-6 and Cornelius was a GENTILE !!

And it was Israel job to be a witness to the Gentiles that lived around them !!

We see that a vision had to be given 3 times before Peter understood the vision !!

That is why all that I know do not know how Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 !!

dan p
 

Derf

Well-known member
Hi and there was one before Lydia and read Acts 10:2-6 and Cornelius was a GENTILE !!

And it was Israel job to be a witness to the Gentiles that lived around them !!

We see that a vision had to be given 3 times before Peter understood the vision !!

That is why all that I know do not know how Paul was saved in Acts 9:6 !!

dan p
I'm not sure you responded to anything I wrote. Would you mind trying again?

I guess I don't understand your point about Cornelius, unless you are agreeing with my point about Cornelius.

Peter was a 3-times kind of guy. :) But seriously, that's one way we can see that it was still a mystery to Peter that Gentiles could be saved apart from becoming proselytes of Judaism.

And I don't understand your point about Paul's conversion either. Acts 9:6 neither says that Paul was saved nor intimates how. I'm not disagreeing that it was evidence that he was saved, but not proof nor cause by itself.
 

DAN P

New member
I'm not sure you responded to anything I wrote. Would you mind trying again?

I guess I don't understand your point about Cornelius, unless you are agreeing with my point about Cornelius.

Peter was a 3-times kind of guy. :) But seriously, that's one way we can see that it was still a mystery to Peter that Gentiles could be saved apart from becoming proselytes of Judaism.

And I don't understand your point about Paul's conversion either. Acts 9:6 neither says that Paul was saved nor intimates how. I'm not disagreeing that it was evidence that he was saved, but not proof nor cause by itself.

Hi and what do you not understand , about Cornelius ?

Here some points about Cornelius !!

#1, Cornelius was a gentile , in Acts 10:1-2 !!

#2 , Cornelius has a vision fro God in Acts 10:3-4 !!

#3, God had to show Peter that Gentiles were also to be saved !!

#4 , In Acts 10: 45 that the believers there were of the CIRCUMCISION , called Jews !!

#5 The Holy Spirit fell on them verse 44 !!

#6 , And in verses 47 and 48 they were water Baptized !!

#7 And this means that Cornelius is NOT in the Body of Christ as refeenced in Gal 3:28 !!

Under GRACE there is only one BAPTIZO and that is by the Holy Spirit in Eph 4:5 !!

dan p
 

Derf

Well-known member
Hi and what do you not understand , about Cornelius ?

Here some points about Cornelius !!

#1, Cornelius was a gentile , in Acts 10:1-2 !!

#2 , Cornelius has a vision fro God in Acts 10:3-4 !!

#3, God had to show Peter that Gentiles were also to be saved !!

#4 , In Acts 10: 45 that the believers there were of the CIRCUMCISION , called Jews !!

#5 The Holy Spirit fell on them verse 44 !!

#6 , And in verses 47 and 48 they were water Baptized !!

#7 And this means that Cornelius is NOT in the Body of Christ as refeenced in Gal 3:28 !!

Under GRACE there is only one BAPTIZO and that is by the Holy Spirit in Eph 4:5 !!

dan p

I understand about what Cornelius was and what happened to him. What I didn't understand is why you chose to bring up Cornelius as a new subject after I brought him up in my post. But no matter...

I think it's kind of funny that you use Gal 3:28 to somehow show there is a difference between one type of believer and another type, when the verse specifically says there is no difference between Jew (one type of believer) and Greek (another type): slave (one type of believer) and free (another type); male (one type) and female (another type). In other words, you've taken a verse that was intended to unite believers and used it to divide believers. That's shameful, don't you think?

Of those 3 categories, Cornelius fits well into 3 of them (Greek/Gentile, free, male), but you say he doesn't fit into any part of Gal 3:28. How does that work????????

We were talking about Lydia, who was described in a similar manner as Cornelius. She was Greek, free, and female. But you say she was different from Cornelius--that Lydia was in the body of Christ, but Cornelius was not? What was Cornelius a part of? Could he transition from whatever it was he was a part of after he believed into the thing that Lydia was a part of? Or was he forever stuck in that other thing? Did they recognize the difference--in other words, would Lydia have said to Cornelius, "You're not part of our group"?

I'm not sure I got all of your points, but let me try to repeat them back to you with a comment or two. I'll reference your points when they apply to what it is of your post I'm trying to restate.

You are trying to point out a dichotomy between Body of Christ (BOC) and some Other Thing (#7), referred to from here on as "OT", with some tongue in cheek. Peter and all those that had the Holy Spirit fall on them were part of OT and NOT part of the BOC (#3 and #5). The BOC are NOT: water baptized (#6), Jews (#4), filled with the Holy Spirit (#5), Peter, Cornelius (#1,#2,#7).

I always like to try to tie the posts back into the OP at some point, so let's see how this applies to 1 Cor 2:14 and what it is saying "to all".

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The verse seems to me to point out a dichotomy between the "natural" man and the "spiritual" man. The spiritual man seems to have help from the Spirit of God to help him understand the things that are foolishness to the natural man. What are "the things" being spoken of? They aren't given in this verse. The previous verses talk about (in reverse order): "which things we speak" (vs 13), which points back to vs 12 "the things that are freely given us by God" (known because of the spirit that is from God), which vs 11 says "knoweth no man", which comes after vs 10's reference to the "deep things of God", which appears to refer to vs 9's "the things which God hath prepared for them that love him". But even Vs 9 doesn't exactly say what are those things, except that they are prepared for those that love God, and the heart of man wouldn't ever have dreamed of it. Vs 8 only tells us about something that the princes of this world didn't know about, which follows from vs 7's talk about a hidden mystery that God prepared before the world. But vs 8 does tell us that had the princes known it "they would not have crucified Jesus". So what could be this mystery, knowledge of which would have stopped the crucifixion?? Seems to me that the only possible answer is that Jesus is God's son, who was sent to die for all those that love God (vs 9).

So now, how does that speak of anything about whether Cornelius or Lydia might be in the BOC vice in the OT? And why does that get your dander up against the Pentecostals?
 

1Mind1Spirit

BANNED
Banned
notice also that Act 16:14 KJV says she worshiped God--before God opened her heart to Paul's teaching, presumably. So God no doubt already had influence in her life.

It certainly shouldn't be a dichotomy between "Rom 3:11 ...there is none who seeks after God" and "which worshiped God". So if we think it's dichotomous, we either have a misunderstanding of what it means to "seek after God", or what it means that "God opened her heart" after she was already a worshiper of God.

Same thing was true of Cornelius when he sent for Peter. Cornelius seemed to be seeking after God. Is it possible that Rom 3 is the misunderstood thing? Some would say that God already called both Lydia and Cornelius to the Jewish faith before they were introduced to Christ. That may be, but then it calls into question the phrase "whose heart the Lord opened". Did the Lord have to draw her (and Cornelius?) twice? Were they then regenerated twice, as some might use the word regeration?

Danoh's comments about what means were (was?) used to open her heart is a valid discussion in its own right, just like the proverb: Pro 21:1 KJV - The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Have you ever turned a stream? It's not impossible, but it requires putting blocks/dams in some places and digging channels in others. It's not that you make the water WANT to go a different direction.

Daniel 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
 

Derf

Well-known member
Daniel 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Yes, God can turn human streams (and angelic), but we can't turn God's stream.
 

1Mind1Spirit

BANNED
Banned
So now, how does that speak of anything about whether Cornelius or Lydia might be in the BOC vice in the OT? And why does that get your dander up against the Pentecostals?

Eph 3

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
 

1Mind1Spirit

BANNED
Banned
Yes, God can turn human streams (and angelic), but we can't turn God's stream.

:)


Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Romans 8:25
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
 

Danoh

New member
I understand about what Cornelius was and what happened to him. What I didn't understand is why you chose to bring up Cornelius as a new subject after I brought him up in my post. But no matter...

I think it's kind of funny that you use Gal 3:28 to somehow show there is a difference between one type of believer and another type, when the verse specifically says there is no difference between Jew (one type of believer) and Greek (another type): slave (one type of believer) and free (another type); male (one type) and female (another type). In other words, you've taken a verse that was intended to unite believers and used it to divide believers. That's shameful, don't you think?

Of those 3 categories, Cornelius fits well into 3 of them (Greek/Gentile, free, male), but you say he doesn't fit into any part of Gal 3:28. How does that work????????

We were talking about Lydia, who was described in a similar manner as Cornelius. She was Greek, free, and female. But you say she was different from Cornelius--that Lydia was in the body of Christ, but Cornelius was not? What was Cornelius a part of? Could he transition from whatever it was he was a part of after he believed into the thing that Lydia was a part of? Or was he forever stuck in that other thing? Did they recognize the difference--in other words, would Lydia have said to Cornelius, "You're not part of our group"?

I'm not sure I got all of your points, but let me try to repeat them back to you with a comment or two. I'll reference your points when they apply to what it is of your post I'm trying to restate.

You are trying to point out a dichotomy between Body of Christ (BOC) and some Other Thing (#7), referred to from here on as "OT", with some tongue in cheek. Peter and all those that had the Holy Spirit fall on them were part of OT and NOT part of the BOC (#3 and #5). The BOC are NOT: water baptized (#6), Jews (#4), filled with the Holy Spirit (#5), Peter, Cornelius (#1,#2,#7).

I always like to try to tie the posts back into the OP at some point, so let's see how this applies to 1 Cor 2:14 and what it is saying "to all".

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The verse seems to me to point out a dichotomy between the "natural" man and the "spiritual" man. The spiritual man seems to have help from the Spirit of God to help him understand the things that are foolishness to the natural man. What are "the things" being spoken of? They aren't given in this verse. The previous verses talk about (in reverse order): "which things we speak" (vs 13), which points back to vs 12 "the things that are freely given us by God" (known because of the spirit that is from God), which vs 11 says "knoweth no man", which comes after vs 10's reference to the "deep things of God", which appears to refer to vs 9's "the things which God hath prepared for them that love him". But even Vs 9 doesn't exactly say what are those things, except that they are prepared for those that love God, and the heart of man wouldn't ever have dreamed of it. Vs 8 only tells us about something that the princes of this world didn't know about, which follows from vs 7's talk about a hidden mystery that God prepared before the world. But vs 8 does tell us that had the princes known it "they would not have crucified Jesus". So what could be this mystery, knowledge of which would have stopped the crucifixion?? Seems to me that the only possible answer is that Jesus is God's son, who was sent to die for all those that love God (vs 9).

So now, how does that speak of anything about whether Cornelius or Lydia might be in the BOC vice in the OT? And why does that get your dander up against the Pentecostals?

A lot of that is too much of your own conjecture.

Which you then arrive at your conclusions from.

Question is, are you closed off and easily prone to making yourself the issue when ever a thing is pointed out to you?

Too many...are.

The fact of the matter is that what Peter found out in Acts 10 was that God had concluded all under sin.

He just did not understand this change as his commission had been Matt. 10 and Acts 3; which are how Matthew 28 was to have played out.

And he did not understand that until his meeting with Paul, as accounted by Paul, in Galatians 2.

Where James, Cephas, and John first perceived through the grace given to Paul that...

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

In other words...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

For it is clear from Acts 15 in light of Galatians 2, that Peter's understanding in Acts 15 was after he met with Paul.*

______________

* Just as it is clear from Galatians 2 and 3, and elsewhere not only throughout Galatians, but throughout Paul's pre Romans Epistle, that Paul had been preaching and teaching core Romans doctrines for over a decade before he later laid them out in written form, in Romans.
_____________

One thing you might study out is what Paul is actually telling the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 1-3; both before and after he says to them that "the wisdom of God in a mystery; even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before UNTO OUR GLORY" is for "them that are perfect..."

He says that to these Corinthians - whom he has found "are yet carnal, babes in Christ..."

In other words, this wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, is not that Christ died for their sins; for they are already in Christ.

This is a wisdom that Paul is assertting they are nowhere even ready for.

Something else was accomplished by the Cross. Something once hidden from the princes of this world.

And the Corinthians are nowhere near ready for its' truths due to their constant focus on themselves as the issue.

They have not grown past Christ died for our sins.

Because each time push has come to shove and it has been time for them to walk in the grace they were saved by; they have not focused on the Cross of Christ.

Rather; on the nonsense of the flesh.
 

DAN P

New member
I
So now, how does that speak of anything about whether Cornelius or Lydia might be in the BOC vice in the OT? And why does that get your dander up against the Pentecostals?

Hi and because of Gal 3:28 and you are mis-understanding whet Gal3:28 is saying !!

#1 , Corelius could never be in the BOC as there never was in operation at that point in time >

#2 . There are 4 verbs in verse 38 , all in the Present tense !!

#3 , The Present tense speaks to those in the BOC ONLY and in the BOC there are NO Jews , neither Greeks , NEITHER Slaves nor Free , nor Males nor Females , this is CLEAR BUT NOT TO YOU ?

#4 , PENTECOSTALS will never understand any Greek tenses what so ever but INTERPLANNER seems to know some !!

#5, Pentecostals say that Pentecost was the beginning of the B O C and there are about 6 postions as to where the B O C BEGAN !!

#6 Pentecostals do not know how people are saved under GRACE !!

#7 Pentecostals claim to fame is Water Baptism and TONGUES , just watch T V !!

dan p
 

Derf

Well-known member
Hi and because of Gal 3:28 and you are mis-understanding whet Gal3:28 is saying !!
That is certainly possible! I've been wrong about stuff before. But I just think it's interesting that you get an entirely opposite intention from Gal 3:28--one that divides believers into two camps--than one would naturally get when reading the verse--that Paul was trying to show that Christ made one camp out of two.

#1 , Corelius could never be in the BOC as there never was in operation at that point in time >
"Never" is a long time. But I guess you've answered my question. You are saying that Cornelius never had the opportunity to belong to the body of Christ. Which is interesting, as that seems to indicate that Jews would be less likely than Cornelius to become part of the BOC. Yet we know there were Jews in the BOC, else why would Paul point out that the Jew vs Greek distinction is not important in the BOC--the intention of Gal 3:28. You seem like you don't agree with Gal 3:28.
#2 . There are 4 verbs in verse 38 , all in the Present tense !!

#3 , The Present tense speaks to those in the BOC ONLY and in the BOC there are NO Jews , neither Greeks , NEITHER Slaves nor Free , nor Males nor Females , this is CLEAR BUT NOT TO YOU ?
I think you make a lot more out of tenses than can be made. Not to say there isn't some important stuff to glean from it, but present tense is useful for more than indicating dispensations. It's actually useful to communicate to people that are alive at the time you write your letter. Try doing without it sometime. I guess you're saying that if Paul ever communicated with the OT (see definition in my last post, since you didn't define the "other thing" for me), he must have only used some other tense. Which one do you think he used? How did it sound? Maybe like this:
Paul: Peter, how were you doing just now? ("How are you doing?")
Peter: Huh?
Paul: In a few minutes, I will have had a nice time talking with you. ("It's nice to talk with you.")
Peter: I don't get you, Paul.

But once again, it seems like what you are saying is that are NO Jews in the BOC and NO Greeks, NO male and NO female, NO slaves and NO freemen. These comparisons are all dichotomous--Paul is noting that on one hand you have Jews and Greeks, slave and free, male and female, all these opposite types, in the BOC. But the BOC is not a respecter of those distinctions.
#4 , PENTECOSTALS will never understand any Greek tenses what so ever but INTERPLANNER seems to know some !!
"Never" is a long time.

#5, Pentecostals say that Pentecost was the beginning of the B O C and there are about 6 postions as to where the B O C BEGAN !!
Did you include the one that began in about 5 BC? :)

#6 Pentecostals do not know how people are saved under GRACE !!
I'm no expert on Pentecostalism, by any stretch. But I expect there are some that understand what grace means.
#7 Pentecostals claim to fame is Water Baptism and TONGUES , just watch T V !!

dan p
There are certainly plenty of other denominations that use water baptism. In fact, water baptism has been the norm for Christian churches, including those Paul preached to. I'm not saying whether they have been right or wrong all these 2000 years, but it's hardly a Pentecostal-only thing.
 

DAN P

New member
That is certainly possible! I've been wrong about stuff before. But I just think it's interesting that you get an entirely opposite intention from Gal 3:28--one that divides believers into two camps--than one would naturally get when reading the verse--that Paul was trying to show that Christ made one camp out of two.

"Never" is a long time. But I guess you've answered my question. You are saying that Cornelius never had the opportunity to belong to the body of Christ. Which is interesting, as that seems to indicate that Jews would be less likely than Cornelius to become part of the BOC. Yet we know there were Jews in the BOC, else why would Paul point out that the Jew vs Greek distinction is not important in the BOC--the intention of Gal 3:28. You seem like you don't agree with Gal 3:28.
I think you make a lot more out of tenses than can be made. Not to say there isn't some important stuff to glean from it, but present tense is useful for more than indicating dispensations. It's actually useful to communicate to people that are alive at the time you write your letter. Try doing without it sometime. I guess you're saying that if Paul ever communicated with the OT (see definition in my last post, since you didn't define the "other thing" for me), he must have only used some other tense. Which one do you think he used? How did it sound? Maybe like this:
Paul: Peter, how were you doing just now? ("How are you doing?")
Peter: Huh?
Paul: In a few minutes, I will have had a nice time talking with you. ("It's nice to talk with you.")
Peter: I don't get you, Paul.

But once again, it seems like what you are saying is that are NO Jews in the BOC and NO Greeks, NO male and NO female, NO slaves and NO freemen. These comparisons are all dichotomous--Paul is noting that on one hand you have Jews and Greeks, slave and free, male and female, all these opposite types, in the BOC. But the BOC is not a respecter of those distinctions.
"Never" is a long time.

Did you include the one that began in about 5 BC? :)

I'm no expert on Pentecostalism, by any stretch. But I expect there are some that understand what grace means.
There are certainly plenty of other denominations that use water baptism. In fact, water baptism has been the norm for Christian churches, including those Paul preached to. I'm not saying whether they have been right or wrong all these 2000 years, but it's hardly a Pentecostal-only thing.

Hi and there are many who Water Baptize , RCC , Nazarenes , Baptists of all kinds ETC !!

They are under the Acts 2 so-called believers !!

Dispensationalists are divide into Acts 9 , 11 13 , and 28 !!

Paul never did BAPTIZO and Paul Eph 4:5 that there is ONE BAPTISM /BAPTISMA , hope you know the dkifference ?

dan p

dan p
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Hi and there are many who Water Baptize , RCC , Nazarenes , Baptists of all kinds ETC !!

They are under the Acts 2 so-called believers !!

Dispensationalists are divide into Acts 9 , 11 13 , and 28 !!

Paul never did BAPTIZO and Paul Eph 4:5 that there is ONE BAPTISM /BAPTISMA , hope you know the dkifference ?

dan p

dan p
1 Corinthians 12:13-14 KJV -
 

Derf

Well-known member
A lot of that is too much of your own conjecture.
Enlighten me!

Which you then arrive at your conclusions from.

Question is, are you closed off and easily prone to making yourself the issue when ever a thing is pointed out to you?
Which thing that has been pointed out to me am I failing to grasp? And how am I making myself the issue?
Too many...are.

The fact of the matter is that what Peter found out in Acts 10 was that God had concluded all under sin.

He just did not understand this change as his commission had been Matt. 10 and Acts 3; which are how Matthew 28 was to have played out.

And he did not understand that until his meeting with Paul, as accounted by Paul, in Galatians 2.

Where James, Cephas, and John first perceived through the grace given to Paul that...

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

In other words...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
I get the feeling that you like to use "concluded all under sin" in a special way that I'm not understanding. Maybe you can explain what you mean by it.


For it is clear from Acts 15 in light of Galatians 2, that Peter's understanding in Acts 15 was after he met with Paul.*

______________

* Just as it is clear from Galatians 2 and 3, and elsewhere not only throughout Galatians, but throughout Paul's pre Romans Epistle,
is that pre Romans Epistle one that is extant? or one that is merely referred to?
that Paul had been preaching and teaching core Romans doctrines for over a decade before he later laid them out in written form, in Romans.
_____________

One thing you might study out is what Paul is actually telling the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 1-3; both before and after he says to them that "the wisdom of God in a mystery; even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before UNTO OUR GLORY" is for "them that are perfect..."

He says that to these Corinthians - whom he has found "are yet carnal, babes in Christ..."

In other words, this wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, is not that Christ died for their sins; for they are already in Christ.
And it doesn't seem like it's the message that they don't need to follow the law, as they were apparently well aware of that aspect of grace.

This is a wisdom that Paul is assertting they are nowhere even ready for.

Something else was accomplished by the Cross. Something once hidden from the princes of this world.

And the Corinthians are nowhere near ready for its' truths due to their constant focus on themselves as the issue.

They have not grown past Christ died for our sins.

Because each time push has come to shove and it has been time for them to walk in the grace they were saved by; they have not focused on the Cross of Christ.

Rather; on the nonsense of the flesh.
So, what is it that Paul wanted to reveal to the Corinthians that they weren't ready to hear? Not just that was hidden from the princes of the world, but that would have been so earth-shattering that those princes would not have crucified Christ?
 

DAN P

New member
Enlighten me!

Which thing that has been pointed out to me am I failing to grasp? And how am I making myself the issue?
I get the feeling that you like to use "concluded all under sin" in a special way that I'm not understanding. Maybe you can explain what you mean by it.


is that pre Romans Epistle one that is extant? or one that is merely referred to?And it doesn't seem like it's the message that they don't need to follow the law, as they were apparently well aware of that aspect of grace.

So, what is it that Paul wanted to reveal to the Corinthians that they weren't ready to hear? Not just that was hidden from the princes of the world, but that would have been so earth-shattering that those princes would not have crucified Christ?


Hi and we find many things that were written to all and the Corinthians were sanctified " in Christ " so they are OSAS , but are yet CARNEL 1 cOR 3:1=3 and in 1 Cor 2:1 tells them about the MYSTERY /SECRET !!

dan p
 

Derf

Well-known member
Hi and there are many who Water Baptize , RCC , Nazarenes , Baptists of all kinds ETC !!

They are under the Acts 2 so-called believers !!

Dispensationalists are divide into Acts 9 , 11 13 , and 28 !!

Paul never did BAPTIZO and Paul Eph 4:5 that there is ONE BAPTISM /BAPTISMA , hope you know the dkifference ?

dan p

Never is a long time, Dan P. Ask Crispus and Gaius, and the family of Stephanas (1 Cor 1:14,16). And maybe talk to the rest of the Corinthians about whether baptism was the norm:
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his whole household believed in the Lord. And many of the Corinthians who heard the message believed and were baptized.

So Paul baptized Crispus, and under Paul's teaching and authority, others in Paul's group baptized the many other Corinthians who believed.

I guess Paul and the Corinthians, to whom Paul wrote the focal text of your OP, were "Acts 2 so-called believers", eh?
 

DAN P

New member
Never is a long time, Dan P. Ask Crispus and Gaius, and the family of Stephanas (1 Cor 1:14,16). And maybe talk to the rest of the Corinthians about whether baptism was the norm:
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his whole household believed in the Lord. And many of the Corinthians who heard the message believed and were baptized.

So Paul baptized Crispus, and under Paul's teaching and authority, others in Paul's group baptized the many other Corinthians who believed.

I guess Paul and the Corinthians, to whom Paul wrote the focal text of your OP, were "Acts 2 so-called believers", eh?

Hi and BAPTISM / BAPTIZO were part of the message to Israel and are NOT part of the Gospel of Grace !!

I call them Acts 2 , because they use a FEAST DAY of Israel , PENTECOST !!

Jews are in the Body of Christ IF they are saved by Grace and not until then , and then lose there IDENtity in Christ as Gal 3:28 says !!

When you get a chance , say what 1 Cor 1:17 means as scripture to you ??

dan p
 
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