Trump Tax Reform

WizardofOz

New member
You nor the demonrats have read squat. If you did you would see you're wrong like the demonrats.
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Originally Posted by patrick jane
I haven't analyzed the tax plan, maybe you have time to do that
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Originally Posted by patrick jane







I also know enough about this tax plan to see and hear the democrats lying about it.You're just a **** disturber as far as I'm concerned, always taking peoples' words out of context.

Out of context by directly quoting you regarding what you know and have read or heard about the tax plan?

You just don't like getting called out for your bluster.

Analyze is different than knowing something about it. I know what honest sources say about it, my point to begin with.

You said the 'demonrats' didn't even read it yet you didn't even read it. You just like to parrot what your preferred sources say about it. :sheep:
You're only confirming your bias and not learning a damn thing.

Which honest sources can you cite?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/tax-plan-republicans/index.html
 

patrick jane

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Out of context by directly quoting you regarding what you know and have read or heard about the tax plan?

You just don't like getting called out for your bluster.



You said the 'demonrats' didn't even read it yet you didn't even read it. You just like to parrot what your preferred sources say about it. :sheep:
You're only confirming your bias and not learning a damn thing.

Which honest sources can you cite?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/tax-plan-republicans/index.html
The demonrats were lying before it was released. I watched press conferences and FOX News, honest sources. Out of context is exactly what you do when you select quotes from conversations that don't include you and imply bluster. jgarden gets his information from cartoons it seems, not unlike the lying demonrats. Your bias is also plain to see, at least I don't try to hide mine and I was replying to jgarden not you. If he wants to call my "bluster" let him do it, he's a grown boy. Then you jump into dr brumley and my conversation where he changed the subject too. I'm done with you play babies. Enjoy Trump
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
I changed the subject? All I did was ask you if Trump was going to cut spending...your reply seemed to be "who cares about spending...its no big deal,"

Well, it is a BIG DEAL!

You said you read Mises, You must not agree with him. Because your saying everything opposite of him.

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aCultureWarrior

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

Since you don't want to talk about federal HIV/AIDS programs, how about the high cost of recreational drug use?

The economic cost alone is immense, estimated at nearly $215 billion [2008 statistic]


I'm fine with talking about anything you want to.

I posted two beloved Libertarian behaviors that cost the US taxpayer an enormous amount of money. If you're really interested in cutting the size of government, and hence taxation, you would agree that those behaviors need to be curtailed...

but then that would go against Libertarian doctrine.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

Since you don't want to talk about federal HIV/AIDS programs, how about the high cost of recreational drug use?

The economic cost alone is immense, estimated at nearly $215 billion [2008 statistic]




I posted two beloved Libertarian behaviors that cost the US taxpayer an enormous amount of money. If you're really interested in cutting the size of government, and hence taxation, you would agree that those behaviors need to be curtailed...

but then that would go against Libertarian doctrine.
Only in your warped mind

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WizardofOz

New member
I know where I'd start cuts. It seems rather obvious once it's laid out in front of you

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For anyone who doesn't care about debt and deficits


Even as deficits have fallen, debt held by the public has continued to rise, growing from $5.0 trillion in 2007 and $7.5 trillion in 2009 to $13.1 trillion today. As a share of GDP, debt rose from 35 percent in 2007 to about 74 percent in 2014 and 2015.

Both deficits and debt are projected to rise over the next decade and beyond, with trillion-dollar deficits returning by 2025 or sooner and debt exceeding the size of the economy before 2040, and as soon as 2031



Balance the budget!
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Been reading some news about the tax proposals and it seems hard to pin down where people will fall.



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...-winners-losers-wealthy-health-insurance-loss
— Many families making less than $30,000 a year would face tax increases starting in 2021 under the Senate bill, according to Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. By 2027, families earning less than $75,000 would see their tax bills rise while those making more would enjoy reductions, the analysts find. The individual income-tax reductions in the Senate bill would end in 2026.



https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...ves-how-many-people-it-would-benefit-n2410519
Even the liberal Tax Policy Center's analysis -- which found that the benefits aren't as middle-class centric -- determined that "the legislation would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in 2018 and 2027"


That's right: About 70 percent of all US taxpayers currently take the standard deduction, which would approximately double under the House-passed bill. So right out of the gate, the vast majority of American taxpayers already stand to benefit from the bill. Analysts predict that if the standard deduction increases dramatically, the percentage of filers who claim it (i.e., eschewing itemizing) will rise to the ballpark of 90 percent. A liberal activist on Twitter objected to my argument above, reasoning that some number of the new additions to the standard-deduction-taking ranks would still be worse off than they would be under the current system. I replied by thanking him for confirming that at a minimum, somewhere between 70 and 90 percent of all Americans will be winners under the Republican proposal

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publ...ibutional-analysis-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/full
The Tax Policy Center has produced preliminary distributional estimates of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Actas introduced on November 3, 2017.We findthe legislation would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in 2018and 2027.The largest cuts,in dollars and as a percentage of after-tax income,would accrue to higher-income households.However, not all taxpayers would receive a tax cutunder this proposal—at least 7 percent of taxpayers would pay higher taxes under the proposal in 2018 and at least25percent of taxpayers would pay more in 2027.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Alternatives to the GOP plans.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/17/16667068/republican-tax-plan-gop-mess
The Republican tax bill is far, far, far worse than it had to be





Suppose Republicans wanted an across-the-board tax cut that helped both middle-class and rich people. They could’ve simply cut the 10 percent tax bracket to 8 percent, or that plus cut the 15 percent bracket to 12 percent. That helps middle- and upper-class people (though not the poor) and creates no losers. If they wanted to conform to Senate rules, they could have it all expire after eight or 10 years, just as the current legislation does. If they wanted to make it permanent, and cared deeply enough, they could’ve gone nuclear on the filibuster and passed a permanent cut with 51 votes.

But Republicans also want a lower, permanent corporate tax rate. Also doable: You can finance substantial rate cuts by removing tax breaks from the corporate code. Robert Pozen at Harvard Business School has estimated that eliminating the deductibility of interest payments on corporate debt would enable a cut in the corporate rate from 35 percent to 15 percent. If you wanted to, at the same time, allow 100 percent deductibility of all investments at the time they’re made, the rate would have to go up somewhat. But you could definitely cut the corporate rate, and pay for it permanently, by eliminating certain deductions and broadening the base. You don’t have to raise taxes or take away health care from middle-class people.

Republicans have grander aspirations than that, however. If you read the “Better Way” tax framework released by House Speaker Paul Ryan and House Ways and Means Chair Kevin Brady in 2016, you’ll see page after page of arguments for transitioning away from taxing income to taxing consumption. A lot of economists agree with that goal, even progressive ones (though others insist taxing consumption is inherently regressive).

Luckily there’s a plan in Congress that achieves that goal, is revenue-neutral, and doesn’t raise taxes on the poor or middle class. It’s Sen. Ben Cardin’s (D-MD) Progressive Consumption Tax Act. Cardin would exempt the first $100,000 of income for couples from income tax ($50,000 for singles, $75,000 for single parents), meaning that the vast majority of people would no longer pay income taxes. He'd consolidate rates to three — 15, 25, and 28 percent — and cut the corporate tax to 17 percent. That's a lower top individual rate, and a lower corporate rate, than the Senate is proposing. To pay for it, he'd introduce a value-added tax, the kind of consumption tax used in most other rich countries, and add a rebate so that poor people don’t see their taxes go up.

The plan, based on a proposal by Columbia tax law professor Michael Graetz, accomplishes basically all of Republicans’ substantive tax reform goals. It lowers income tax rates, and dramatically lowers the corporate tax. By exempting the majority of Americans from income taxes, it reduces the importance of deductions and credits. And it shifts the tax burden to consumption by adding a VAT.

But unlike the Senate or House tax bills, it doesn’t increase the deficit, and it’s not regressive. The Tax Policy Center modeled the Graetz plan back in 2013 with a VAT rate of 12.9 percent, and slightly tweaked individual tax brackets (14, 27, and 31). TPC found that it would cost $0. It’s completely revenue-neutral. And it's progressive. The top 0.1 percent would see their income fall by 0.9 percent, and the poorest fifth would see their income grow by 1.2 percent.

If Republicans really want to give needy people a tax cut while shifting the tax code to consumption and lowering individual and corporate tax rates, there’s your plan. You can work with Cardin on putting together a passable version right now.

Perhaps a VAT is too dramatic a step. I have a plan for then, too! Senate Finance Committee ranking member Ron Wyden has for years put out bipartisan tax reform plans, first with Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) and then with Sen. Dan Coats (R-IN), who have both since left the body. The plan sets a top rate of 35 percent, lowers the corporate tax rate to 24 percent, and, according to a 2010 analysis from the Tax Policy Center, would have made the tax code slightly more progressive. That analysis came before some of the high-income Bush tax cuts were revived, so the effect relative to today's laws would be different. But it’s a model for a way to cut corporate rates and simplify the code while not making the tax code more regressive.

 

The Barbarian

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Are you ceding such massive power to the dems that they needn't even control a single branch of government in order to hold sway?

The problem is that while the republicans hold the presidency and both houses of Congress, the American people are completely disgusted with all of them. So they're afraid of passing some of the crazier things the brown shirt faction of the party is tossing up.

Add that to the fact that the republicans have had years of doing nothing but posturing and passing legislation they knew would not become law, and the result is a party too extreme to compromise and too weak to govern.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/22/16691016/economists-gop-tax-plan-igm-poll

Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy
But all of them think it will increase the debt.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Right, the only fair tax cut plan is one where low income persons always get a tax break. The wealthy people will get a big break on corporate tax cuts alone, since most wealthy persons are invested in the market.

I would be more than satisfied with the corporate tax cuts and have no problem paying near as much personal tax as long as the new tax code is more simple and fair to the most needy.

Most truly honest persons will admit to some selfishness, but being too selfish is morally vacant.

One part of the tax bill is loss of home mortgage deductions, yet this mostly effects wealthy people.

The main criticize of the current tax plan is some persons will be placed in higher tax brackets and this will not do!
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/22/16691016/economists-gop-tax-plan-igm-poll

Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy
But all of them think it will increase the debt.

Its a good plan, but it needs spending cuts to make it work. Trump doesn't acknowledge this along with that Kentucky libtard McConnell. So this assessment looks about right.
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/24/16689998/penn-wharton-budget-model
New dynamic score shows the Senate tax bill raises debt by more than advertised



For years, Republicans have hinted that they would ultimately enact a tax plan by engaging in dynamic scoring — i.e., a form of economic analysis that tries to argue tax cuts will boost economic growth and therefore tax collection and therefore be more affordable than they appear in a static context.

Yet curiously, the Trump Treasury Department has not yet produced a dynamic analysis of the president’s pet legislative project. The most likely reason for this is that the last time we had a Republican administration and its Treasury Department tried to do a rigorous dynamic analysis, they found that they couldn’t make it work. The growth-boosting impact of lower marginal tax rates was largely offset by the growth-slowing impact of more government borrowing. To generate a scenario in which tax cutting boosted growth, the George W. Bush Treasury had to invoke the idea of a tax plan that was offset by large, unspecified spending cuts.

There’s no reason to believe an honest Treasury analysis of the Trump tax plan would show anything different.

 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Its a good plan, but it needs spending cuts to make it work. Trump doesn't acknowledge this along with that Kentucky libtard McConnell. So this assessment looks about right.
The article I just posted says that spending cuts are necessary to make it work as well, even with dynamic scoring.
 
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