Theology Club: Today Many in the Neo-MAD Camp are King James Only

[SaulToPaul 2]

What the Lord Jesus said there is either true ior it is not.

I agree. All of it is true. The whole passage.

 

[Tambora]

Then why was I not corrected since I referred to him/her as a 'female" many times in the past?

Possibly because you don't take correction into account.

 

[Tambora]

You did not answer my questions but instead asked two more questions.

That's right. Because in your scenario, you don't have Christ being on the cross on the 14th.

Am I wrong?

 

[Danoh]

Jesus said love your enemies. Jerry is not your enemy He is just someone who disagrees with you and you resent that he will not give up. Furthermore the desire to silence one's opponents is reminiscent of the way John Calvin ran Geneva. He did not like it when people disagreed with him either. Actually Jerry's beliefs are closer to yours than that of the overwhelming majority of (evangelical) Christendom which does not believe MAD at all. His views are much closer to yours than mine. Maybe you should long for my death as well.

Get a grip. Neither agreement nor disagreement with his views is the issue. Read back a few threads.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What Jerry does with this John 5 verse is no different than the Catholics with this verse:

No, you are just like the Catholics because they put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than they do in what the Scriptures actually say.

You put more faith in the teaching of those in the Neo-MAD camp than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. For further proof of that let us look at this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you if a Jew who lived under the law believed he was not saved. Only if he believed and then do works could he be saved.

However, what is said at John 3:16 makes it plain that all a Jew had to do was to 'believe" to be saved but you deny that truth.

Once again you prove that you put more faith in what some men say abiut the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That's right. Because in your scenario, you don't have Christ being on the cross on the 14th.

Am I wrong?

What is it with you people? You ask me questions and then when I answer them you refuse to answer mine. Again, please answer my questions in answer to what you said here:

Was the Passover lamb killed on the 14th or 15th?

How could the Jews observe the Passover Seder while the Passover Lamb remain alive? And since the Passover was observed on the 14th it is evident that the Passover Lamb was killed by that time:

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

Are you willing to argue that the Passover was observed before the Passover Lamb was killed?

The 15th was the day after the Passover was celebrated:

"The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover" (Num.33:3).​

Why do you refuse to answer?

Are you ashamed of your beliefs? Or perhaps you have not yet figured out what the truth is?

If you cannot understand these simple things it is obvious that you do not have the ability to determine the day of the crucifixion.

So answer my questions and prove that you have enough understanding of these things to provide an intelligent answer.

 

[Danoh]

Then why was I not corrected since I referred to him/her as a 'female" many times in the past?

Because it just went to show how poor your skill is at discerning the obvious.

Besides, I was not offended by it. Just as your views do not offend me; some of which I actually hold.

You'd know that if you were sharper then you continue delude yourself being.

But its your need to lord yourself over others is what is offensive... Daffy.

"You've to change your evil ways, bay-beh. Before ah stop lovin you; you've got ta change, bay-beh" lol

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't know why you keep on asking me the same thing when the answer is already there.

Your idea is easily shown to be in error.

First let us look at this translation from the KJV in a little more detail:

"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?... Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve. And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me. And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I? And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me" (Mt.26:17-18,20-23).​

Now let us look at the same exact event described in the book of Mark:

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?... And in the evening he cometh with the twelve....And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me. And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I? And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish" (Mk.14:12,17-20).​

It is obvious to anyone with an open mind that the the events described in Matthew which I quoted are the same exact events described in Mark which I quoted. And these words from Mark prove that the day spoken of is not the first day of the feast of unleavened bread, as you imagine:

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover" (Mk.14:12).​

The Passover lamb was killed before the 14th was over, not the 15th, the first day of the feast of unleavened bread:

"And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread" (Lev.23:6).​

That contradicts your idea that Mark 14:12 and Matthew 26:17 are describing events of the first day of the feast of unleavened bread.

The observance of the Passover Seder was on the 14th so the Passover lamb must be killed by that day so it can be eaten:

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

Therefore, it is impossible that you are right when you assert that the words "first day of the feast of unleavened bread" is the correct translation in this verse:

"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?" (Mt.26:17; KJV).​

Since this is the first time that I have made this argument it is impossible that you have answered it already. So if you want to defend your idea then you must address what I said on this post.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because it just went to show how poor your skill is at discerning the obvious.

You did not say if you are "male" or "female."

Which is it?

 

[Tambora]

How could the Jews observe the Passover Seder while the Passover Lamb remain alive?

Good question.
And that's what I'm asking you .... Did Christ observe the Passover meal

And since the Passover was observed on the 14th it is evident that the Passover Lamb was killed by that time:

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

Then .... if the supper Christ shared with His disciples was the Passover meal (which included the Passover lamb slain on the 14th), then how is it that Christ is not on the cross on the 14th?

Or, to ask more bluntly ....
Was the last supper the Passover meal? Cause if all the Passover lambs had already been killed that day, why is Christ still alive to eat it, if He is to fulfill the Passover lamb which can only be killed on the 14th?

Are you willing to argue that the Passover was observed before the Passover Lamb was killed?

Was the last supper the Passover meal? If so, then Christ was not killed on the day of Passover. Right?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In your scenario, you have Christ being on the cross on the cross AFTER the last supper with His disciples.
Was the last supper the Passover meal?

All you do is ask more questions and you never answered any of mine.

You obviously have no understanding of any of this and that is why you refuse to answer my questions.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

No, you are just like the Catholics because they put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than they do in what the Scriptures actually say.

You put more faith in the teaching of those in the Neo-MAD camp than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. For further proof of that let us look at this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you if a Jew who lived under the law believed he was not saved. Only if he believed and then do works could he be saved.

However, what is said at John 3:16 makes it plain that all a Jew had to do was to 'believe" to be saved but you deny that truth.

Once again you prove that you put more faith in what some men say abiut the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

Which men?

Read the whole passage, and believe it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Which men?

The teachers within the Neo-MAD community.

Read the whole passage, and believe it.

I have already read it and all you prove is the fact that you do not believe what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to you if a Jew who lived under the law believed he was not saved. Only if he believed and then do works could he be saved.

However, what is said at John 3:16 makes it plain that all a Jew had to do was to 'believe" to be saved but you deny that truth.

Once again you prove that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[Danoh]

You did not say if you are "male" or "female."

Which is it?

Galatians 3:28

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

However, what is said at John 3:16 makes it plain that all a Jew had to do was to 'believe" to be saved but you deny that truth.

Go back in the OT and read about "unto US a son is given".

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Galatians 3:28

Are you Danoh Shore?

 

[Danoh]

Dealing with Jerry on these issues is much like dealing with someone who is not Mid-Acts; the more one points out to such, the less they see.

Makes one wonder why bother.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

This passage, if 1 John was for the Body of Christ, eliminates Jerry from the Body.


1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


There is no wiggle room there...unless Jerry does righteousness 100% of the time.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Dealing with Jerry on these issues is much like dealing with someone who is not Mid-Acts; the more one points out to such, the less they see.

Makes one wonder why bother.

Yes, he is basically Acts 2. There is very little difference ,of any significance.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Galatians 3:28

You shouldn't cite verses which you do not understand. Do you think that Paul was wrong when he described himself in the following way?:

" I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an ISRAELITE, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin" (Ro.11:1).

You should have been there in the first century so that you could have corrected him, saying, Wrong Paul. There is neither Jew nor Greek in the Body of Christ as it says here:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal.3:28).​