ECT Those of the Body of Christ Will Reign on the Earth With Christ

[whitestone]

They will not see Him until they say that so it will be after they say that.



The present dispensation will end at the rapture. The terms of salvation will remain the same after the rapture. Throughout history man has been saved in only one way--by grace through faith apart from works, all made possible by the Lord Jesus' death upon the Cross. After this dispensation is over, the message will be the gospel of the kingdom, the truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And believing that gospel will result in life by being born of God (Jn.20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

your putting the cart before the horse,,,,if Christ "will not come" until they confess that he "is the Messiah" and only then will he come then THEY MUST CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY DURING THIS CURRENT DISPENSATION,TO BE ABLE TO SAY BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH ECT.,,,

If they do not believe he is the Christ he wont come. If they say that he is the Messiah then they are then "Christian",,,so until they become Christian we are in this dispensation. After they say he is the Christ and they believe it then the millennial kingdom will begin but who will need to preach that he is the Christ if they must confess it before he comes?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yep, its sort of like that.

At the same time, some; no matter how many decades they have been reading "books about" these issues, will have to continue to assert the Body will return to reign on the Earth, for their failure to understand the purpose of the Mystery to begin with.

And decades more will not get anyone anywhere, with them.

The reason people like me believe that the BOC will return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His kingdom is because what is said here:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:16-17).​

This passage is speaking of being in the "presence" of the Lord Jesus when those in the BOC meets Him in the air and therefore when it speaks of those in the BOC being with Him for ever it is His "presence" which is in view.

But according to your view those in the BOC will no longer be in His presence when He returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom.

As usual, you give no evidence from the Scriptures to support your assertion.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

your putting the cart before the horse,,,,if Christ "will not come" until they confess that he "is the Messiah" and only then will he come then THEY MUST CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY DURING THIS CURRENT DISPENSATION,TO BE ABLE TO SAY BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH ECT.,,,

I believe what the Lord Jesus Himself said:

"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" (Mt.23:39).​

According to His own words they will not see Him until they say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This means that they must say those words BEFORE they will see Him.

Your argument is not with me but instead the Lord Jesus.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

That verse only refers to the Universal Kingdom spoken of here where God is seen ruling:

"Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all" (1Chron.29:11).​

The Lord Jesus will rule from the "throne of David" as Man:

"The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne" (Ps.132:11).​

 

[whitestone]

I believe what the Lord Jesus Himself said:

"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" (Mt.23:39).​

According to His own words they will not see Him until they say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This means that they must say those words BEFORE they will see Him.

Your argument is not with me but instead the Lord Jesus.

And I also believe the very verse quoted. I am not arguing with you at all(thats not my intention),,,but if we then both agree that they "must" say this(believe he is the Christ),,,and as in your o.p. you quote Paul in that the dead in Christ will rise first,then we that remain will be caught up(still living Christians),,,and the Jews must confess him before he comes.

Then will they,(the Jews who then will be Christians or he wont come),after they convert also not be raptured at the same time as "those who remain"? Is it that after all this time we first believed that the remaining Christians who are rapture'd and the newly converted Christians were given two different promises,one the earthly possession,the other another?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And I also believe the very verse quoted. I am not arguing with you at all(thats not my intention),,,but if we then both agree that they "must" say this(believe he is the Christ),,,and as in your o.p. you quote Paul in that the dead in Christ will rise first,then we that remain will be caught up(still living Christians),,,and the Jews must confess him before he comes.

No, the rapture will precede the return of the Lord Jesus' return to the earth to set up His earthy kingdom.

 

[whitestone]

No, the rapture will precede the return of the Lord Jesus' return to the earth to set up His earthy kingdom.

then will all the newly converted Jews(who are then Christians) be rapture'd at the same time or "left behind"?

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Revelation 21

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

then will all the newly converted Jews(who are then Christians) be rapture'd at the same time or "left behind"?

They will not be converted until after the rapture.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Revelation 21

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

This is speaking of the eternal state of which John was given a vision. And that state will not happen until the following happens:

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power" (1 Cor.15:24).​

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

This is speaking of the eternal state of which John was given a vision. And that state will not happen until the following happens:

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power" (1 Cor.15:24).​

Let me simply leave you with a logistical thought. A little matter of physics and claustrophobia. Do you actually believe the Lord and all the saints are going to be cloistered on the temple mount during the millennium? All crammed into the temple inner sanctum? Or spread all over a world in waste? With all due respect, you need to seriously reconsider what you're saying and look at a lot of scripture much more closely.

 

[Totton Linnet]

We can see that from the point of time of the rapture onward those in the Body of Christ will for ever be with the Lord Jesus:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:16-17).​

You evidently do not believe what Paul wrote there.

Jesus told His Possuls "I go to prepare a place for you and will come again and take you unto Myself that where I am you might be also"

He ascended to the Father

The Jewish church is the BOC

We are already seated with Him in heavenly places...I agree the 12 will sit on 12 thrones but why should anyone say they are earthly thrones? Christ even now reigns in His church from heaven.

The Revelator was in heaven when He saw thrones set up.

In the NEW earth the Temple which is the church will come down from heaven...but that is after the 1, 000 years

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

Jesus told His Possuls "I go to prepare a place for you and will come again and take you unto Myself that where I am you might be also"

He ascended to the Father

The Jewish church is the BOC

We are already seated with Him in heavenly places...I agree the 12 will sit on 12 thrones but why should anyone say they are earthly thrones? Christ even now reigns in His church from heaven.

The Revelator was in heaven when He saw thrones set up.

In the NEW earth the Temple which is the schurch will come down from heaven...but that is after the 1, 000 years

Bingo! (Minus some potential "Jewish church" weirdness?)

 

[whitestone]

They will not be converted until after the rapture.

Then if they will not be converted until after the rapture,then the Gospel of grace will be the Gospel that is given in the next dispensation. That is it is written that there is no other salvation where by we must be saved.

So then if they must needs be preached unto to hear the word and be converted who will say it if we all are gone? And if we are all not gone were we left behind in the rapture? If the body of Christ then is made incorruptible,and afterward they(Jews) become converted and say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord,ect.,,,then Jesus returned before they said "blessed is he that cometh in the name ect.(that is you say we are before they convert),,,and Jesus is made a lier in that he would not return until they said it.

That is the first Resurrection and the catching up of the body of Christ is "at his coming",and he will not come until they say it. so then The rapture cannot take place until they confess him as the Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Let me simply leave you with a logistical thought.

The verse which I quoted to you is in regard to what will happen at the end of the earthly kingdom. Not what happens during the earthly kingdom. Here it is again:

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power" (1 Cor.15:24).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Jewish church is the BOC

Both Gentiles and Jews are baptized by One Spirit into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

We are already seated with Him in heavenly places...I agree the 12 will sit on 12 thrones but why should anyone say they are earthly thrones? Christ even now reigns in His church from heaven.

Christ is not now sitting at His own throne but instead on what he calls the Father's throne:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

They are not the same throne. Besides that, the Scriptures state in no uncertain terms that the saints will reign on the earth:

"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth" (Rev.5:10).​

 

[Totton Linnet]

But we do reign on earth, if society has become evil it is because the church is failing to establish God's will [we have been empowered]....but as well as reigning thru the church, God also governs on behalf of the church.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Bingo! (Minus some potential "Jewish church" weirdness?)

Well there was a Jewish church but not anymore....I'm saying the church before any Gentiles were added was the BOC

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Then if they will not be converted until after the rapture,then the Gospel of grace will be the Gospel that is given in the next dispensation. That is it is written that there is no other salvation where by we must be saved.

The gospel of grace is not the same gospel as the gospel of the kingdom mentioned here:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Mt.24:14).​

The gospel of the kingdom declares that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And all those who believe this truth will receive life when they are born of God (Jn.20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

So then if they must needs be preached unto to hear the word and be converted who will say it if we all are gone?

There will be plenty of people who will be close to those who will be raptured and they will know exactly what happened to them. After that, their minds will be open to receiving the truths found in the gospel and they will be saved and then spread the good news.

I really cannot understand the rest of what you said in the remainder of your post so perhaps it would help if you try to re-phrase your thoughts.