There is coloring and then there is coloring

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ThePhy

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Bob Enyart takes the art of spin-doctoring to a new level. In spite of his nominal obeisance to Christian norms of honesty, he does not hesitate to use severe exaggeration and outright lies to carry his points. A classic example was over the course of two shows late in 2001. On Dec 28 2001, in a show entitled “Signer Barney Franklin”, starting at 31 minutes into the show, he brings up an incident that occurred a few years prior on one of his radio broadcasts. As he tells it, some elementary students in the Jefferson School district were given an assignment to color an explicit drawing of a naked man’s genitalia. This came to the attention of one of the parents of a student, who passed the picture to Bob. Bob decided to send it to Pat Schroeder, a Colorado congresswoman. He says he initially faxed the picture to her office with a request for her to color it, much as the students were being asked to do. He then tells of a phone call that he got almost immediately from her office asking what was going on.

The exact dialogue from that show is interesting. Starting at 34 minutes and 50 seconds into the show – this is what Bob said:
I just sit down in the studio and start to open the show and the phone rings, and it’s some worker at Pat Schroeder’s office, I think his name is Kip. Kip is on the phone, and Kip is really mad. And he wants to know - he is just beside himself – and he wants to know – “Who, who sent this to us, did you” - and you could tell that he – “I just want to, I just want to confirm that you sent this to us.”

And he wants to call the police and charge me with making an obscene phone call to a congresswoman’s office over the FAX lines.

So he was really angry. And he just got the information he wanted, and just before he hung up, I explained where we got the picture. And you could tell that sort of deflated his anger. Because what he thought was pornographic at one moment, that was a crime, being sent from a radio station to a governing official, that was so despicable and obscene and enraged him - and all of a sudden it was being given to girls and boys in the fourth grade, well that is perfectly acceptable.

Kip just in case you are listening out there somewhere in the world, you are a blithering idiot, you are a moron, you are a piece of human waste. What an idiot.
Note the following very specific claims that Bob made:

Kip is really mad

He is just beside himself

He wants to call the police and charge Bob with making an obscene phone call using the FAX

He was really angry

He changed from thinking the picture was vulgar to OK

He is a blithering idiot

He is a moron

He is a piece of human waste

In the next show, on 31 Dec, 2001, titled “CSMAHON at Eathlink.net”, he chooses to actually play the recording of that event. Starting at 1 minute and 30 seconds into that show, he discusses the recording he is about to play.

I strongly recommend you listen to the clip itself. It starts at 3 minutes and 30 seconds into the 31 Dec 2001 show. Listen to both the exact dialogue, and especially the tone of the representative (Kip) from Pat’s office.

Following is the full dialogue from Kip (the representative from Pat’s office), and the dialogue from Bob:
BE: Hello, hello

Kip: Hi, are you there?

BE: Yes, this is Bob Enyart, host of Speak Your Mind on KQXI radio. I just, uh, I am on the air right now, and I just got the message that you guys had called in for me.

Kip: I am just calling to confirm, did you in fact send us this fax?

BE: Yes I did, I was wondering if Pat Schroeder could maybe color that in and then call me to chat about it.

Kip: What does that mean - color it in?

BE: Well if she could take like a crayon, or maybe even a neon crayon, and could color it in and she could stay within the lines, and then call in and talk about the experience.

Kip: Ok, that is the purpose for my call, just to clarify and confirm that you sent this.

BE: Ok, could I just ask your name?

Kip: Sure, my name is Kip.

BE: Kip, and just to let you know where we got that, we got that from the Jefferson County School District – they hand that out to the kids I think in 5th grade, and they have them sit in little groups of boys and girls, and color it in together

Kip: The teachers hand this out?

BE: Yes the teachers hand this out, and they have the girls color in that - that is drawing of a guy spread eagled, you can see everything there. And they have the kids sit in groups of boys and girls and color it, and during the course of the class the teacher says the word penis about 20 something times according to the manual. Some of the parents are like up in arms about this, because it looks gross, it looks far beyond what you need to do to teach a kid about sexual reproduction, and I thought Pat Schroeder as a Federal Representative should know what our Federal tax dollars are going for.

Kip: Thanks Bob for letting us know.
Nowhere in the recording does Kip raise his voice. Throughout he sounds very professional, and the most pronounced emotion he shows is slight surprise at finding the picture was being handed out by teachers. He made no threats, no hint that he was going to call the police, no hint of anger in his voice.

Compare the actual dialogue and see how many of the claims Bob made the week before against Kip were true. Really mad? Beside himself? Wants to charge Bob? Angry? Changed his mind about the picture? Blithering idiot? Moron? Human waste?

A lot of these attributes may be applicable, but not to Kip. They belong to the man who levied them and then professes to be a minister of God.

It may be that the incident of the schools issuing inappropriate coloring material for sex education was true, but in light of the blatant misrepresentation of the interaction with Kip, I am certainly not going to blithely think that the story as Bob tells it is free from exaggeration or outright fabrication.
 
why is it ok for someone to say "you're a piece of human waste" but not "You're a piece of sh**"? The words mean the same thing :confused:
 

Rimi

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I found the archives and did listen, not just taking your word for it, and I agree that perhaps Bob did misrepresent Kip. My question to you, ThePhy, is if you know whether Bob retracted or apologized on a later show. If he did, then it's pointless rehashing this. If he didn't, then, yeah, it's less than stellar. I do find it curious that no one from DBC responded to this one way or the other.
 

Jefferson

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I think Bob exaggerated and embellished the story too much. But that does not change the fact that Zakath is on his way to hell.
 

wholearmor

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After listening to both segments of both broadcasts, here are my thoughts. I don't know why Bob was bringing up an issue that happened 9 years earlier, but the fact is, it was something that happened 9 years in the past that Bob was recalling, albeit incorrectly to a degree. The much larger issue, however, is why the Jefferson County School District was handing out a drawing like that to 5th graders and asking them to color it in. Bob got those facts 100% correct. Why isn't ThePhy more outraged about that part of the story than the part of the story that Bob Enyart remembered partially incorrectly which happened so long ago?
 

Caille

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wholearmor said:
After listening to both segments of both broadcasts, here are my thoughts. I don't know why Bob was bringing up an issue that happened 9 years earlier, but the fact is, it was something that happened 9 years in the past that Bob was recalling, albeit incorrectly to a degree. The much larger issue, however, is why the Jefferson County School District was handing out a drawing like that to 5th graders and asking them to color it in. Bob got those facts 100% correct. Why isn't ThePhy more outraged about that part of the story than the part of the story that Bob Enyart remembered partially incorrectly which happened so long ago?




Not to answer for ThePhy, but for me it's a matter of credibility. Deardelmar discounted the whole Denver Post article regarding Enyart's child abuse conviction because the writer misidentified the gender of the child on Enyart's lap at sentencing.
If Enyart manages in his Dec 28, 2001 radio show to so thoroughly mischaracterize the exchange between himself and Kip and use that mischaracterization as an excuse to vilify Kip, what credence should I give to any information he imparts ? As ThePhy put it
"It may be that the incident of the schools issuing inappropriate coloring material for sex education was true, but in light of the blatant misrepresentation of the interaction with Kip, I am certainly not going to blithely think that the story as Bob tells it is free from exaggeration or outright fabrication."


wholearmor said:
Bob got those facts 100% correct.


Why would I believe this is true ?
 

ThePhy

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Apology still wanting

Apology still wanting

From Rimi:
My question to you, ThePhy, is if you know whether Bob retracted or apologized on a later show.
I listened to a number of Bob’s shows in the weeks following the ones in which he commented on and then played the recording of the call from Kip. I don’t recall him making any concessions about inaccurately representing Kip. If anyone can point us to a specific place where he did that on-air, I would be very gratified if they would post it here.
 

ThePhy

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Zakath is spelled K-i-p?

Zakath is spelled K-i-p?

From Jefferson:
I think Bob exaggerated and embellished the story too much. But that does not change the fact that Zakath is on his way to hell.
Wow, that response went over my head. How did Zakath get wrapped up in this?
 

ThePhy

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Put on the whole armor ...

Put on the whole armor ...

Fromwholearmor :
I don't know why Bob was bringing up an issue that happened 9 years earlier, but the fact is, it was something that happened 9 years in the past that Bob was recalling, albeit incorrectly to a degree.
If Bob wants to use a scripture to build an object lesson around, does he pick one that he hasn’t reviewed in nearly a decade? If you listen to the program (“Signer Barney Franklin”) in which he first bring up the Kip issue, you find that it was not an just an off-the-cuff response to a caller or something similar where he didn’t have time to review it before talking about it. It would seem wise that a radio host take a few minutes to refresh themselves on the particulars of a story they choose to discuss on-air.
The much larger issue, however, is why the Jefferson County School District was handing out a drawing like that to 5th graders and asking them to color it in. Bob got those facts 100% correct. Why isn't ThePhy more outraged about that part of the story than the part of the story that Bob Enyart remembered partially incorrectly which happened so long ago?
My commenting on Bob’s portrayal of Kip in no way translates into my acceptance of what the school district was doing. The problem is that the entire set of knowledge I have about that comes from one source – the very radio shows in which Bob castigated without Kip without justification.

If Bob had portrayed Kip accurately, I would be far more inclined to accept his characterization of what the school district was doing.

I hope you are not saying that when two errors are found (the drawing and the misrepresentation of Kip) that we should address only one and leave the other uncorrected?
 

Jefferson

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ThePhy said:
I hope you are not saying that when two errors are found (the drawing and the misrepresentation of Kip) that we should address only one and leave the other uncorrected?
We're not. Rimi and I both think Bob exaggerated the story. If your point is that Bob is too proud to ever admit when he is wrong then I've got some really bad news for you. He not only admits it, he publishes it over the internet for all the world to see. See http://kgov.com/errata.html

Name me one other pastor on the planet who does this. And while you're at it, where are your admissions of error on the net ThePhy? Or are you too proud to have them likewise displayed for all to see?
 
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Caille

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Jefferson said:
We're not. Rimi and I both think Bob exaggerated the story. If your point is that Bob is too proud to ever admit when he is wrong then I've got some really bad news for you. He not only admits it, he publishes it over the internet for all the world to see. See http://kgov.com/errata.html

Name me one other pastor on the planet who does this. And while you're at it, where are your admissions of error on the net ThePhy? Or are you too proud to have them likewise displayed for all to see?



So what does this have to do with Zak taking a trip to Michigan ??

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.ad...ess&cat=&address=&city=hell&state=MI&zipcode=
 

Caille

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Jefferson said:
We're not. Rimi and I both think Bob exaggerated the story. If your point is that Bob is too proud to ever admit when he is wrong then I've got some really bad news for you.



How could you think that this is ThePhy's point ? The point (and again, I don't mean to speak for ThePhy) is that Bob's approach compromises his cedibility. If he's not believable on point A, then why assume he's believable on point B ?
 

ThePhy

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The confessional in disguise

The confessional in disguise

From Jefferson:
If your point is that Bob is too proud to ever admit when he is wrong then I've got some really bad news for you. He not only admits it, he publishes it over the internet for all the world to see. See http://kgov.com/errata.html
I am not sure why you feel a need to exaggerate what I said. I have heard Bob admit to errors on his radio program. I think that is commendable. The subject of this thread is not Bob’s overall integrity. It is examining a specific instance in which as you admit, Bob exaggerated. If the examination of his conduct on a larger scale shows him to be forthright and honest, then this isolated incident probably won’t add up to much. If you will notice, my original post on this was well over a year ago, and I have said nothing more of this between that time and recently when someone resurrected this thread. If it were my intent to pillory Bob, I could have focused light on this incident over and over in a dozen forums.
Name me one other pastor on the planet who does this. And while you're at it, where are your admissions of error on the net ThePhy? Or are you too proud to have them likewise displayed for all to see?
I apologize for my misunderstanding. I mistakenly read the title of this forum as “Bob Enyart Live”. I did not realize it is really “The TOL Confession Booth”. I was way out of line in actually listening to one of the archived Bob Enyart Live shows and mentioning it in this forum.
 

Jefferson

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Caille said:
How could you think that this is ThePhy's point ? The point (and again, I don't mean to speak for ThePhy) is that Bob's approach compromises his cedibility. If he's not believable on point A, then why assume he's believable on point B ?
As ThePhy said...

If the examination of his conduct on a larger scale shows him to be forthright and honest, then this isolated incident probably won’t add up to much.
 

wholearmor

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It's commendable that Bob played the actual call on the very next show, but I'm wondering why he didn't mention the obvious misrepresentation. I can only speculate why he misrepresented the call. My guess is that's how he remembered it 9 years later and if he didn't review it before commenting on it, he should have. I'dl like to hear what he has to say about it.
 

wholearmor

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Zakath said:
What does any of this have to do with me?

I've never called Enyart's show... :think:

In my estimation, Jefferson was pointing out the fact that no matter what Bob says or does or anyone else for that matter, it doesn't change the fact that you're going to Hell for rejecting Christ.
 

Jefferson

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wholearmor said:
In my estimation, Jefferson was pointing out the fact that no matter what Bob says or does or anyone else for that matter, it doesn't change the fact that you're going to Hell for rejecting Christ.
Exactly. Caille said, "If he's not believable on point A, then why assume he's believable on point B?" Wrong assumption Caille. Enyart is still right about Zakath being on his way to hell. Point being that although Enyart was incorrect about a minor point, he is still correct about the only point that really matters in the end - that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour to all those who believe.
 
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