The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace
- Thread starter Bob Hill
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patman said:
Non-canonical books are quoted in Scripture (even pagan poets by Paul). They may contain truth, but should not be put on par with inspired Scripture. We should be fair in our rejection of apocryphal books (cf. Book of Jasher referred to in Joshua and Samuel).
He'll do whatever he can to undermine the gospel.patman said:
patman
Active member
godrulz said:
Some people don't understand this tho. Being fair is good, don't get me wrong, but if you give some people an inch they take a mile. The few similarities it has to the NT are reason enough for her to blind herself with this illusion that the book is actually Scripture.
That's like someone 2000 years from now taking my story about David finding Noah's Ark and going on a cruise as scripture because it mentions events in the Bible....
godrulz said:
Your trust in MAD doctrine as anything near the truth as revealed in the Word of God is not valid.
It is Enoch which completely destroys the doctrine of MAD, and Enoch was written thousands of years before MAD doctrine, and Jesus and all NT writers referenced Enoch as Scripture. So of course, those of you in MAD doctrine must not accept Enoch, as it destroys the clay foundation of your MAD writings, which you receive, unlawfully, as truth:
Early Church fathers referenced Enoch as Scripture. Rome banned Enoch in the 4th century, The Ethiopian Coptic Church never banned Enoch and placed it after Job in their Bible -for the last two thousand years, that Church has considered Enoch as inspired, and rightly so.
So Godrulz, show me one thing which contradicts the OT or the NT that you have documented for yourself -not by hear-say- in the book of Enoch -if you can, lay it out for all to see.
On Scripture, from God’s point of view, answer me these things [any of you in MAD or you who are in league with MAD doctrine as ‘acceptable’ within ‘orthodoxy‘ -which it is not]:
1 Where is the Scripture of Truth found to be read, in which is written all that shall befall Daniel’s people =until the end of the age, from which the angel showed Daniel those things recorded in Daniel 11 and 12?
The information on where the Scripture of Truth is written is not to be found within the OT. That information is to be found in Enoch.
2 Where is the doctrine of Son of Man coming to earth, as Messiah and Judge, on His throne of Glory, in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
3 Where is the Son of Man given the sum of all judgment in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
4 Where is the recorded words called the “Wisdom of God” which Jesus spoke from, in Luke 11:49, in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is to be found in the book of Enoch.
5 Where did Paul read “in the Wisdom of God“, that the “world through wisdom knew not God? [ 1 Cor 1:24]?
It is not written in the OT. It is written in Enoch.
6 Where did Paul and the Apostles read the hidden mystery in the Wisdom of God to tell about?
Not in the OT did they read of the Son of Man to come as the Hidden in God from the beginning secret, whose name was secret, until His revealing; but they read that in the book of Enoch.
The hidden Mystery in Enoch is the Son of Man who was to come in flesh as Messiah, Son of Man/Son of God/ Judge of earth, Redeemer, Truth, the Word, to be revealed in His appointed Season, who was “from the beginning” “Hid in God”, who was with God and who was God, who was the Word of God, who as the Oath of God [solemn word] made and upholds all things.
1Cr 2:7But we speak [tell] the wisdom of God in the mystery, the hidden, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they shall slay and persecute:
Why did Caiaphas have a hissy fit when Jesus quoted from Enoch, applying the quote to Himself?
That was not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
7 And why did Jesus tell the Sadducees they did not know the Scriptures nor the power of God, to deny the resurrection of the body,?
That is fully taught only in Enoch, and referenced, only, in the OT.
Job’s confidence in the resurrection of his flesh is not in the OT anywhere to be found, such as Job’s confidence shows, in chapter 19, but is found only in Enoch.
8 And where is the complete doctrine of Hell, Sheol below, and the Lake of fire for eternity, as seen in the NT to be found in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
Tertullien [http://www.tertullian.org/books/souterresurrection.txt] understood this, also, in referencing the resurrection of the body in translated form for the righteous to inherit eternal life, as Enoch teaches, and the resurrection of the body of the unregenerate to be cast aways in the everlasting fire. Only in Enoch is the doctrine completely laid out with no ambiguities, and only in Enoch will one learn where Jesus could reference Abraham’s Bosom in Sheol below, before His ascension, as the place for the righteous to be waiting for the Day Appointed, as found completely described only in Enoch.
I was speaking to you, but I did not call you MAD in doctrine, only a sympathizer -therefore, you are not able to call them on the false doctrine they follow, as you reject the doctrine which totally refuted their doctrine thousands of years before MAD doctrine was made up......which doctrine from Enoch Jesus Christ used as His Messianic authourity, in His teaching on who He was, from the beginning and is. -and Paul, of course, used as the basis for the Hidden in God Son of Man who is come, who was to come.godrulz said:
And I challenged you to produce your own arguments from Enoch which contradict any doctrine of the OT or the NT -and not to just make a blanket statement from hear-say against Enoch's writings.
I can use Scripture to prove Enoch. You cannot use Scripture to prove MAD doctrine.patman said:
There’s a challenge in that post to you, also -or for anyone who is able to think and reason;
Show me where these things 8 things, copied from that post and below, are to be found in the OT:
1 Where is the Scripture of Truth found to be read, in which is written all that shall befall Daniel’s people =until the end of the age, from which the angel showed Daniel those things recorded in Daniel 11 and 12?
The information on where the Scripture of Truth is written is not to be found within the OT. That information is to be found in Enoch.
2 Where is the doctrine of Son of Man coming to earth, as Messiah and Judge, on His throne of Glory, in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
3 Where is the Son of Man given the sum of all judgment in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
4 Where is the recorded words called the “Wisdom of God” which Jesus spoke from, in Luke 11:49, in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is to be found in the book of Enoch.
5 Where did Paul read “in the Wisdom of God“, that the “world through wisdom knew not God? [ 1 Cor 1:24]?
It is not written in the OT. It is written in Enoch.
6 Where did Paul and the Apostles read the hidden mystery in the Wisdom of God to tell about?
Not in the OT did they read of the Son of Man to come as the Hidden in God from the beginning secret, whose name was secret, until His revealing; but they read that in the book of Enoch.
The hidden Mystery in Enoch is the Son of Man who was to come in flesh as Messiah, Son of Man/Son of God/ Judge of earth, Redeemer, Truth, the Word, to be revealed in His appointed Season, who was “from the beginning” “Hid in God”, who was with God and who was God, who was the Word of God, who as the Oath of God [solemn word] made and upholds all things.
1Cr 2:7But we speak [tell] the wisdom of God in the mystery, the hidden, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they shall slay and persecute:
Why did Caiaphas have a hissy fit when Jesus quoted from Enoch, applying the quote to Himself?
That was not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
7 And why did Jesus tell the Sadducees they did not know the Scriptures nor the power of God, to deny the resurrection of the body,?
That is fully taught only in Enoch, and referenced, only, in the OT.
Job’s confidence in the resurrection of his flesh is not in the OT anywhere to be found, such as Job’s confidence shows, in chapter 19, but is found only in Enoch.
8 And where is the complete doctrine of Hell, Sheol below, and the Lake of fire for eternity, as seen in the NT to be found in the OT?
It is not found in the OT. It is found in Enoch.
You have no basis to disagree with Enoch as you have not read the book through. and cannot identify the usage of it in the NT by Jesus and all the writers of the NT.godrulz said:
thelaqachisnext said:
Those who are experts on canonicity through the centuries have concluded it is not on par with inspired Scripture based on the evidence. Merely quoting it does not make the whole thing Scripture. I do not have to read every word in the Book of Mormon to know it is not Scripture. Some research would show the problems with the book. There is a reason you are in the minority on accepting it. Scholarship shows it is not Scripture. I have given you links in the past. Try google.
.godrulz said:
So you admit you accept Rome and are under Rome -not under Jesus, not under Paul, not under Peter, not under Jude, not under John, not under James, but under Rome.
I am in the minority with many great men of God -and with all the apostles of the NT and with Jesus Christ, Himself, Who is the One Enoch saw as the Hidden in God from the beginning Son of Man who was to come, rise from the dead, and return on the Throne of Glory to be the Judge of the earth and who will transform the heavens and the earth and then, the Father will be united in the Creation reformed, in the Son's name.
-It was Rome who banned Enoch -and many of the early Church fathers believed it was Scripture and quoted it as such.
a great amount of Paul's writings are taken from what He read in Enoch, and taken from no other source, as those doctrines of the Messiah which Jesus attributed to Himself found only in Enoch, also, are from.
If the men you claim to follow had read the Scriptures for themselves they would not have banned Enoch.
I have a list I would like you to just tell me where you find these things in, in the OT, which I listed above.
Where are they, Godrulz? 8 of them listed -tell me where in the OT you can find one of them -and that's just a tip of the iceberg of evidence for Enoch and against MAD doctrine.
Begin with Daniel 10:21, and direct me to the Scripture of Truth, Godrulz.
I am not protestant evangelical. I am not of Rome or of Calvin or of any men, but born of Jesus Christ only.godrulz said:
I do not accept 'other' books as inspired Scripture, but after examining Enoch for myself and coming to understand it I do accept it as inspired -and it wouldn't even matter if it were or not, as it was accepted by Jesus and all the NT writers and they quoted from it, and it refutes MAD doctrine totally -that is the Message I am here to convey -whether you believe it is inspired or not is not the crux of the matter, but whether Jesus and all the writers of the NT believed it was inspired is the crux of the matter.
, and there are plenty of credible men who accept Enoch as inspired -the entire Ethiopian Coptic Church in Ethiopia for two thousand years who never bowed to Rome kept it in their canon, Godrulz, and a Southern Baptist minister has compiled and edited a version of Enoch, and he is a vice president of a Southern Baptist theological Seminary in Austin Texas, and he believes Enoch is inspired and correlates over three hundred Scriptures with Enoch -but I've found many more, myself. His name is Ronald K Brown.
This discussion is about MAD doctrine being refuted by Enoch thousands of years before MAD doctrine was invented, and the refutation is from a book quoted by Jesus and all the authors of the NT, and from that book the Doctrine of Christ, hell, and the second consumation of sin is totally understood as it is laid out there and no other place for the NT writers to use as the base for the Doctrine of Christ as the Hidden in God Son of Man who was to come and is come and shall come as judge of the Quick and the dead.
So you cannot answer where the Scripture of Truth is found, which the angels speks of in Daniel 10, nor any of the other 7 questions I asked, but you want to pretend Enoch was not the Book of Choice for the doctrine of the Son of Man as the Hidden in God from the beginning mystery, who was to come and is come and shall come.patman said:
Enoch refutes your MAD doctrine: Christ come in flesh as the Son of Man/Son of God/Redeemer/Messiah/Judge/ who was from the beginning with God and was God is the doctrine of Enoch's Messiah who was hidden, concealed, secret, until His revealing.
No one in Adam has a chance of redeeming themselves, and YHWH prepared the world for 4,000 years for His coming in flesh as Kinsman, and Salvation is of the Jews in that all the doctrine of His One Way for redemption was committed to the Jews only, and not to MAD, as Oracles showing the Day of His "Season" of Acceptable well pleasing, sacrifice.
Only in the Living Oracles can the plan be learned, and Paul of Scripture knew it and spoke of it after his eyes were opened, but MAd doctrine does not follow Paul of Scripture and makes false stories of disobedience and rebellion up for men to follow.
From Enoch, on the Son of Man from 61 -