ECT The Righteousness Which Is Of God

[Jerry Shugart]

Let us look at this passage where the gospel of grace declares that all who believe receive the righteousness which is of God?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

This righteousness which is of God comes to all who believe. And here Paul speaks of the same thing in another epistle:

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

Those who insist that "faith" by itself is not enough to receive the righteousness which is of God do not understand the gospel of grace and therefore they are not believing the gospel which brings salvation:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Where are all those people who argue that "faith" by itself is not enough to be saved?

 

[turbosixx]

Let us look at this passage where the gospel of grace declares that all who believe receive the righteousness which is of God?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

This righteousness which is of God comes to all who believe. And here Paul speaks of the same thing in another epistle:

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

Those who insist that "faith" by itself is not enough to receive the righteousness which is of God do not understand the gospel of grace and therefore they are not believing the gospel which brings salvation:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

You're missing Paul's point. He's telling them that works of the law of Moses cannot save them.

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Paul used the law and prophets to prove Jesus is the Christ.
Acts 28:23...trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Phil. 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,

Why was the one talent man cast into darkness and not the other two servants?
Matt. 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You're missing Paul's point. He's telling them that works of the law of Moses cannot save them.

No, these words of Paul are in regard to Abraham, who lived before the law was even in existence:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:3-5).​

And here there is no mention of the law, just works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

 

[Interplanner]

No, these words of Paul are in regard to Abraham, who lived before the law was even in existence:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:3-5).​

And here there is no mention of the law, just works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

that's a lexical question, Jerry. You can't just use one phrase in one passage. It was very typical for Paul to be talking about the works of the Law, so much--so often-- that expressions about it implied that. Not good interp on your part.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Where are all those people who argue that "faith" by itself is not enough to be saved?

I'm here. Let me know when you want facts.

 

[Interplanner]

I'm here. Let me know when you want facts.

Faith in the NT is only as good as the object believed. That objective value/work/accomplishment is what saves, but humans connect to it by faith not by things they can do.

 

[Danoh]

You're missing Paul's point. He's telling them that works of the law of Moses cannot save them.

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Paul used the law and prophets to prove Jesus is the Christ.
Acts 28:23...trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Phil. 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,

Why was the one talent man cast into darkness and not the other two servants?
Matt. 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

In THAT FORMER Dispensation merely keeping ITS' THEN REQUIRED Law saved NO ONE anymore than basically being "a pew warmer" ABSENT OF Faith, in our CURRENT Dispensation does.

The issue ALWAYS WAS - Faith.

In THAT FORMER Dispensation - The Law - THE ISSUE WAS ALSO the issue of circumcision of THE HEART...

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Romans 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Meaning what?

Merely doing the things contained in the Law?

Nope - even the Gentiles - who had not the Law - put the Jew - who knew God's will via the Law - to shame.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I once read a good example of what that is talking about, by the way.

I'll expand on it a bit more; towards bringing out its' intended sense a bit more...

One couple is living in sin.

Another couple is legally married.

The couple living in sin has not the law of marriage.

The married couple does.

The couple living in sin are faithful to one another.

The married couple are ever lying to, and cheating of, one another.

The couple living in sin, who have not the law of marriage, are putting the married couple to shame.

Though without the law of marriage, they are doing those things contained in the law of marriage...in sickness and in health, etc., their conscience bearing them witness of right and wrong as to their bond..their thoughts the meanwhile NEITHER excusing, NOR accusing them in their actions...

In contrast to that lying, cheating, married couple.

For marriage availeth much IF thou keep the law of marriage, which is actually an issue - of Faith...of THE HEART.

 

[turbosixx]

No, these words of Paul are in regard to Abraham, who lived before the law was even in existence:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:3-5).​

Yes, that's the point he's trying to make. He's trying to convince those who can't imagine being righteous without the law of Moses and circumcision that they can be justified without them. When he says justified without works, he’s talking about the law of Moses. He shows in chapter 2 that even though they have the law they are in the same boat as the Gentiles, sinners. Then at the end of chapter 3 he tells them God is the God of the Gentiles also.
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
To prove that man can be righteous without the law and without circumcision, he uses the example of Abraham who was declared righteous without being circumcised and not having the law.
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;

To use these passages in Romans to prove that we are justified without works is incorrect. Paul is talking about the works of the law of Moses and not works of the law of Christ.

And here there is no mention of the law, just works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

True but it doesn’t say without works either like it does in Romans. No one is saved by works.

 

[turbosixx]

In THAT FORMER Dispensation merely keeping ITS' THEN REQUIRED Law saved NO ONE anymore than basically being "a pew warmer" ABSENT OF Faith, in our CURRENT Dispensation does.

The issue ALWAYS WAS - Faith.

In THAT FORMER Dispensation - The Law - THE ISSUE WAS ALSO the issue of circumcision of THE HEART...

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,

Romans 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Meaning what?

Merely doing the things contained in the Law?

Nope - even the Gentiles - who had not the Law - put the Jew - who knew God's will via the Law - to shame.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I once read a good example of what that is talking about, by the way.

I'll expand on it a bit more; towards bringing out its' intended sense a bit more...

One couple is living in sin.

Another couple is legally married.

The couple living in sin has not the law of marriage.

The married couple does.

The couple living in sin are faithful to one another.

The married couple are ever lying to, and cheating of, one another.

The couple living in sin, who have not the law of marriage, are putting the married couple to shame.

Though without the law of marriage, they are doing those things contained in the law of marriage...in sickness and in health, etc., their conscience bearing them witness of right and wrong as to their bond..their thoughts the meanwhile NEITHER excusing, NOR accusing them in their actions...

In contrast to that lying, cheating, married couple.

For marriage availeth much IF thou keep the law of marriage, which is actually an issue - of Faith...of THE HEART.

Good example. That is what I understand Paul to be saying. The Jews who have the law are in the same boat as the Gentiles who do not, both are sinners. Then he uses Abraham to show that one can be justified without being circumcised. I imagine it was hard for the Jews who for over a thousand years trusted in the law and circumcision to then be told you don't need them to be righteous before God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, that's the point he's trying to make. He's trying to convince those who can't imagine being righteous without the law of Moses and circumcision that they can be justified without them. When he says justified without works, he’s talking about the law of Moses.

There is no evidence that Paul is speaking about the works of the law of Moses.

 

[turbosixx]

There is no evidence that Paul is speaking about the works of the law of Moses.

At the end of the previous chapter that is exactly what he's talking about.
Rom. 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,...27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.....31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

By saying works "of the law" he is specifying a specific set of works.

 

[Interplanner]

Let us look at this passage where the gospel of grace declares that all who believe receive the righteousness which is of God?:

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

This righteousness which is of God comes to all who believe. And here Paul speaks of the same thing in another epistle:

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

Those who insist that "faith" by itself is not enough to receive the righteousness which is of God do not understand the gospel of grace and therefore they are not believing the gospel which brings salvation:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Amen, but just remember: faith is only as good as its object

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Amen, but just remember: faith is only as good as its object

In this case it's object is the "gospel of Christ."

Sufficient?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

By saying works "of the law" he is specifying a specific set of works.

What is your point?

Are you trying to prove that the principle of salvation by "grace" is compatible with "works"?

Must a person "work" for the GIFT of God which is eternal life?

 

[Interplanner]

In this case it's object is the "gospel of Christ."

Sufficient?

Yes, exactly. His doing and dying for us.

We do not put faith in faith or in a human decision.

 

[Interplanner]

The works of the law at the end of Romans would have to be as usually understood about Judaism.

 

[beloved57]

Where are all those people who argue that "faith" by itself is not enough to be saved?

A lost person can't believe, or have Faith.Those in the flesh can't please God, which Faith does Heb 11:6!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

By saying works "of the law" he is specifying a specific set of works.

Actually,he said this:

"For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law" (Ro.3:28).

"Works of law" and not the "works of THE law."

By using the word "law" without the definite article he is referring to both "the law" which was given to the Jews as well as the work of the law written in their hearts of the Gentiles of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:15).

So when the word "law" is used it is speaking of the moral law.

 

[turbosixx]

What is your point?

Are you trying to prove that the principle of salvation by "grace" is compatible with "works"?

Must a person "work" for the GIFT of God which is eternal life?

My point is, we cannot use Romans as proof that we are saved by faith WITHOUT works. In Romans Paul is showing that the law of Moses cannot save and that we can only be saved by the law of faith. He refers to the law of Moses as works. People will take verses out of context, like 4:5, and try to say works of the law of Christ when Paul is really talking about works of the law of Moses.