ECT The Pre-Trib Rapture

john w

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Danoh said:
Frankly, I am amazed at how much you are way off on - on practically everything. We're talking the most basic of distinctions...

I have personally known many a MAD and from various camps, keep in touch with many of them - and I have NEVER read so confused in programs an individual as you, Neo-Jerry.

What - uh - mess!

:rotfl:

Rom. 5: 6-8.
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Be careful, D. The confused old man is going to nail you, with one of his debate enders/closers, such as "Don't you believe God/the scriptures/Paul?...Who should we believe: You, or Paul/God/the bible?....We see you Neo-MADS have no answer.....There can be no doubt whatsoever(blah blah blah)....It is clear(that I, Jerry, am right).....Why do you deny what Paul/the bible says here?....This one verse destroys(blah blah blah)....Why do you insult and attack me, and assassinate the messenger?(right after he has just insulted most of TOL)...Why do you believe what men say, instead of what the scriptures actually teach?(Right after quoting what "sir" Robert Anderson, Paul Saddler, "The Greek Lexicon," "The Greek"..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................says on every third post, 466,000 times since he has been on TOL).


Dementia is a tragic disease.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Danoh said:
I have personally known many a MAD and from various camps, keep in touch with many of them - and I have NEVER read so confused in programs an individual as you, Neo-Jerry.
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You evidently have not read Sir Robert Anderson or J.C. O'Hair because what I have been saying matches these two two giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism.

It is your teaching on these matters which walks in lock-step with Acts 28 dispensationalism.

Besides that, do you agree with john w that being "born of God" is not the same thing as being "born again"?

Do you deny that believers in the Body of Christ have been "born again"?

Now we will able to see exactly how confused you are.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The difference being that I actually checked out what Anderson and and O'Hair taught to see if their teaching was not contradicted by the Scriptures and they passed with flying colors.

On the other hand I checked out the teaching coming from the Neo-MAD camp that those who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works and they could lose their salvation and found those ideas easy to refute. And I also found that the Twelve were expecting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and only those in the Body were taught to be eagerly waiting for that appearance.

And since starting this thread I see that no one in the Neo-MAD camp has a clue about the facts concerning the rapture and none of them want to know!
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
You evidently have not read Sir Robert Anderson or J.C. O'Hair because what I have been saying matches these two two giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism.

It is your teaching on these matters which walks in lock-step with Acts 28 dispensationalism.

Besides that, do you agree with john w that being "born of God" is not the same thing as being "born again"?

Do you deny that believers in the Body of Christ have been "born again"?

Now we will able to see exactly how confused you are.
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Hi Jerry and where are these verses " born again " and , or " born of God "

Is one in John 3:5-7 ?

Why not clarify them for us ??

dan p
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi Jerry and where are these verses " born again " and , or " born of God "

Is one in John 3:5-7 ?

Why not clarify them for us ??
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They are all about the same birth as well as this one of which Paul speaks:

"For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

The Greek word translated "begotten" means "to be born." So when Paul preached the gospel to them they were born a second time and therefore "born again."

And that is exactly what Peter is speaking about here:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Those of us have been born again were born of God because they are the same thing. And that is exactly how a person becomes a child of God:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:12-13).​
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
tetelestai said:
Christ Jesus made it crystal clear that He would return before the generation of His contemporaries passed away. That's why James said it was "near".
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Jesus made it clear that the great tribulation would begin before the generation that saw the crucifixion passed away.
Jesus also made it clear that the great tribulation would last until the end of the times of the Gentiles.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
Jesus made it clear that the great tribulation would begin before the generation that saw the crucifixion passed away.
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The word "generation" is a mis-translation.

The Lord Jesus' return to the earth in the first century was dependent on Israel's repentance but that nation did not repent:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).​

Do you think that Israel did repent and that is why, according to your theory, that the Lord Jesus returned in the first century?

Or perhaps you think that the nation did not repent and the Lord Jesus was sent back anyway.

And perhaps you think that what happened in AD 70 fulfilled the promise that when the Lord returns His people the Jews would partake of the times of refreshing:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).​

So which was it? Did the nation repent in the first century or not?
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
They are all about the same birth as well as this one of which Paul speaks:

"For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

The Greek word translated "begotten" means "to be born." So when Paul preached the gospel to them they were born a second time and therefore "born again."

And that is exactly what Peter is speaking about here:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Those of us have been born again were born of God because they are the same thing. And that is exactly how a person becomes a child of God:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:12-13).​
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Hi Jerry and in 1 Cor 4;15 , READS , For if you is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and speaks to Paul's earthly ministry should have unlimited instructors " in Christ " yet ( you have ) not many fathers , for " in Christ " Jesus I did BEGET you through the Gospel !!

#1 , The first verb is YE HAVE / ECHO ids in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and speaks to Paul's earthly ministry !!

#2 , Pauls says that they do not have many fathers !!

#3 For " in Christ " I Paul did BEGET you !!

#4 Do you get that , Paul BEGET THEM as a Father BEGETS CHILDREN !!

#5 And Paul BEGET THEM through the Gospel of the Dispensation of the Grace of God !!

Not so as to 1 Peter 1:23 or John 1:12-13 !!

dan p
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
DAN P said:
4 Do you get that , Paul BEGET THEM as a Father BEGETS CHILDREN !!
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Paul was obviously using figurative language there. But that does not change the fact that the birth to which he referred came from belief in the gospel, and that matches the birth found at 1 Peter 1:23-25 and James 1:18.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Paul was obviously using figurative language there. But that does not change the fact that the birth to which he referred came from belief in the gospel, and that matches the birth found at 1 Peter 1:23-25 and James 1:18.
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Hi Jerry and 1 Cor 4:15 is as CLEAR as can be !!

All that understand can not see the correct text !!

dan p
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Just what I thought.

Those in the Neo-MAD camp are ignorant about the facts concerning the rapture and they don't want to know those facts.

For them ignorance is bliss!
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Just what I thought.

Those in the Neo-MAD camp are ignorant about the facts concerning the rapture and they don't want to know those facts.

For them ignorance is bliss!
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Look at it this way, Neo - should everyone ignore you, you get what you are obviously after - you get to believe you are right.

You have your cake and its eating to.

What more do you want; the kitchen sink?

I swear, Neo-Jerry - there's no winning with you.

I say you should enjoy your ignoring.

Let it be the icing on your cake.

Let it be your...bliss.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Look at it this way, Neo - should everyone ignore you, you get what you are obviously after - you get to believe you are right.

You have your cake and its eating to.

What more do you want; the kitchen sink?

I swear, Neo-Jerry - there's no winning with you.
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You want to talk about anything and everything EXCEPT the rapture.

Why is that?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
A Bible believer knows the the events described here were not witnessed by anyone in the first century:

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ...So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Mt.24:30-34).​
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Here Peter tells the believing Jews exactly how they were saved:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

They were born again when they believed that gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Dan, do you think that you are born again?
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Hi Jerry and ONLY Israel , is being "BORN AGAIN " in Isa 66:8 that is used in John 3:3-6 , means to be born OF WATER and the Spirit !!

Do you see any difference between John 3:3-6 and Rom 10:9 and Eph 2: and 1 Cor 12:3 ??

dan p
 
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