The Plot

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Theonomy

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Jefferson said:
Please cite me just 1 so-called "scholarly" christian book that has more scripture references than The Plot.
Why?

Did I say that I suspected the book hasn't been published because it didn't cite scripture references?

Secondly, even if I did say that (and I didn't), I have not read the book, so I have no idea what the answer is.

Thirdly, it's highly unlikely that this book cites more verses than all Christian scholarly books, nor would that make it a good book.


But again, for emphasis, I did not say that the book is wrong, or a bad book. I said that Enyart's less than scholarly approach in general may serve to explain the lack of publisher interest.
 

Delmar

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The Plot is what it is. Buy it or don't buy it, it is your choice. It is priced the way it is because Bob has rightly or wrongly concluded that the fifty dollar mark will produce the most financial support for his ministry. What is the problem?
 

Joe Roberts

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The Plot, with it's newly raised price from $49.95 to $49.99, is the financial equivalent of the following.

3-4 new music CDs.
4-5 movie tickets
2-3 DVDs
2-3 novelty t-shirts


It's really not that much. Or, if you don't want to 'sacrifice' some of the above entertainment in your life, one could take $1.00 a day and put that in a jar for 60 subsequent days. At the end of those 60 days, you would have $60.00. That would be enough to buy The Plot, pay for the shipping, and head to Starbucks drinking a Venti Cinnamon Dolce Latte while getting doctrinally straight in the head. In theory, April 2nd (about the time you'd receive the book) could be a great day!

When you put it that way, the price doesn’t seem as bad. Thanks. I'll put $25 away each pay check and I should have it in know time.
 

godrulz

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Many academic books have Scripture indexes at the back (page after page) that reference the pages that the verse commentary can be found in. Some of these books are very large and do have many references. This does not mean that their understanding of the verses is perfect.
 

PKevman

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godrulz said:
My first impression was that some references relied on NKJV and were proof texted out of context at times. They did not necessarily stand up to Greek grammatical studies. Even JW WT material cite many verses to deductively support their views, but they do not stand up to close scrutiny. Like any work, other commentators/exegetes will take exception to some interpretations. The verse within a verse in English versions hermeneutic is not a strong foundation compared to parsing the original Greek, which most of us cannot do.

Other reviewers affirm many good things about the book, but also share concerns and problems. We should not uncritically accept any book in total.

I have been well-schooled in the art of hermeneutics, so if it has that I would spot it. I have read portions of it and have not ever noticed that myself. It is rare that I read something that I agree with 100% (outside of the Bible) because I have a critical eye when it comes to doctrine. I am still looking forward to reading "The Plot" with great anticipation!
 

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Jefferson

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kmoney said:
How many are in The Plot?
Exactly? I don't have all day to count but in my copy there are about an average of 50 references to either specific scriptures or scripture passages per column and there are 70 columns so that comes to roughly 3500. But that only includes 10 of the 11 chapters because the index was compiled before chapter 11 was produced. So since it averages 350 references per chapter, I'm estimating the total for the entire book (including chapter 11) would come to about 3850.
 

kmoney

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Jefferson said:
Exactly? I don't have all day to count but in my copy there are about an average of 50 references to either specific scriptures or scripture passages per column and there are 70 columns so that comes to roughly 3500. But that only includes 10 of the 11 chapters because the index was compiled before chapter 11 was produced. So since it averages 350 references per chapter, I'm estimating the total for the entire book (including chapter 11) would come to about 3850.
Ok, so approx. 3850 for The Plot. Now you just have to read every other Christian scholarly books and get an approximation for them. :chuckle:
 

Theonomy

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Delmar said:
The Plot is what it is. Buy it or don't buy it, it is your choice. It is priced the way it is because Bob has rightly or wrongly concluded that the fifty dollar mark will produce the most financial support for his ministry. What is the problem?
It's no biggie. It just seems like a horrendous rip off to me. Opinions are free.
 

Theonomy

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Jefferson said:
Wanna bet?
How on earth can you justify making a claim like this?

OK sure, I want a bet. I'll bet one thousand dollars. Your claim is apparently that The Plot cites more scriptures than all Scholarly Christian books. Get back to me when you've read them all and added up all the Scripture references.

The bet is on!
 

GuySmiley

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Theonomy said:
Yes I do.

Bob Enyart is not a scholar of any sort. Please, don't take that to mean that he's stupid or wrong, but I think all of his fans will readily concede that what he says and writes just doesn't read like respectable scholarship. It's rough around the edges, unacademic in style, it's not the kind of material that would ever pass the muster in peer reviewed theology journals, it is never going to end up in the bibliography of any respectable scholarship, etc.

I won't use the word "hack" to describe him, because that implies that he doesn't really know what he's talking about, and that's not what I'm trying to say. But basically I think it hasn't been published because it's not really a typical work of scholarship. Granted, I say that without having ever read it, but this is the impression I get from Enyart in general, and I suspect it's the reason.
Have you seen how many books Joyce Meyer has written? Who says only scholarly works get published! I think they'll publish anything they think will make money.

In fact, go browse through your local Christian book store, you'll be hard pressed to find a scholarly work. But if you want to exercise, cook, or plan a vacation like a 'Christian' you'll find plenty of books.
 

Theonomy

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GuySmiley said:
Have you seen how many books Joyce Meyer has written? Who says only scholarly works get published! I think they'll publish anything they think will make money.

In fact, go browse through your local Christian book store, you'll be hard pressed to find a scholarly work. But if you want to exercise, cook, or plan a vacation like a 'Christian' you'll find plenty of books.
Of course there are non-scholarly books that get published.

Perhaps I haven't read as many Joyce Meyer books as you - in fact I've read none - so I can't comment on her from experience, but my guess is that she doesn't purport to write the kind of weighty theological work that Enyart has intended to write in the form of "the Plot." Many types of books can be published regardless of the level of "scholarly" material, and I certainly did not say otherwise, but detailed theological works do need to reach a certain level of "scholarliness" to be appealing to publishers. I mean sure, there has been some real crap published (e.g. Hal Lindsey, John Walvoord), but that kind of stuff wasn't really written to be a weighty treatise in the first place.
 

GuySmiley

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Theonomy said:
Of course there are non-scholarly books that get published.

Perhaps I haven't read as many Joyce Meyer books as you - in fact I've read none - so I can't comment on her from experience, but my guess is that she doesn't purport to write the kind of weighty theological work that Enyart has intended to write in the form of "the Plot." Many types of books can be published regardless of the level of "scholarly" material, and I certainly did not say otherwise, but detailed theological works do need to reach a certain level of "scholarliness" to be appealing to publishers. I mean sure, there has been some real crap published (e.g. Hal Lindsey, John Walvoord), but that kind of stuff wasn't really written to be a weighty treatise in the first place.
I just need to make it clear that I have never read any Joyce Meyer book. :chuckle: But I think a book being published or not has nothing to do with it being 'scholarly' or not.
 

Prisca

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The Plot is an amazing manuscript. I do wish it was in a regular published form so that it would be easier to cart around with you, though.
 

Jefferson

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Theonomy said:
How on earth can you justify making a claim like this?

OK sure, I want a bet. I'll bet one thousand dollars. Your claim is apparently that The Plot cites more scriptures than all Scholarly Christian books. Get back to me when you've read them all and added up all the Scripture references.

The bet is on!
Come on Theonomy. All you have to do is look at any of the tomes your own theonomist writers have produced. Have you ever seen a larger scripture index than the one found in Gary North's, "Tools of Dominion?"
 

Theonomy

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Jefferson said:
Come on Theonomy. All you have to do is look at any of the tomes your own theonomist writers have produced. Have you ever seen a larger scripture index than the one found in Gary North's, "Tools of Dominion?"
My own? :chuckle:

I haven't read Tools of Dominion.

But just as soon as you've counted the Scripture references in every work of Christian scholarship and then counted those in the plot, we'll settle this bet challenge of yours. :readthis:
 

godrulz

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Theonomy said:
Of course there are non-scholarly books that get published.

Perhaps I haven't read as many Joyce Meyer books as you - in fact I've read none - so I can't comment on her from experience, but my guess is that she doesn't purport to write the kind of weighty theological work that Enyart has intended to write in the form of "the Plot." Many types of books can be published regardless of the level of "scholarly" material, and I certainly did not say otherwise, but detailed theological works do need to reach a certain level of "scholarliness" to be appealing to publishers. I mean sure, there has been some real crap published (e.g. Hal Lindsey, John Walvoord), but that kind of stuff wasn't really written to be a weighty treatise in the first place.

John Walvoord is a credible, credentialed scholar. Just because you disagree with his views does not mean that he lacks academic credibility. Have you read his commentaries on Daniel and Revelation cover to cover?
 
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