ECT The OT & NT doctrine of the remnant and finality of judgement

Interplanner

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:chuckle:


Honestly STP,
that is one way we know there aren't a package of other events. Look at Mt24:29 originally. the destruction of Jerusalem happens and right after that is the day of judgement of the whole world.

Or that it comes like a thief. I've never read a thief story where they dallied.

Or 'destroy by the splendor of his coming'.

There simply are no extended details of Judaic/Judean events, no plain statement about Israel being protected, God fighting for Israel, etc, in any of these plain language summaries of the 2nd coming.

As you may know, God fighting for Israel was one of the main themes of Dead Sea Scroll texts like the War Scroll and the War of Sons of Light against the Sons of Darkness. You might want to pick up a collection of the DSS and see what the desert and underground groups were thinking and planning. It wasn't what the Christians thought.
 

ThreeAngels

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Of the remnant people of God it is written, “The dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 12:17. These Scriptures reveal that Satan is only at war with the remnant church. They SDA church is in fact the remnant who have both the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The rest of the church, ie woman in symbolic prophecy, has apostasized and are teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 

Interplanner

New member
Santa's sleigh will bring them to IP's book haven, ur, heaven :chuckle:



The Rev is crammed with images that don't 'work.'

What good is the NHNE to unbelievers who are being punished elsewhere? What good is a 'nation' when God is the temple and Christ is the light (replacing the sun) in the NHNE? Free your mind.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The new heaven and earth happen after this planet is burned to a crisp.

Not really.

Verse one of Rev. ch 21 belongs on the end of chapter 20.

Clearly the contents of Re.ch 21 and 22 speak of the events yet to occur on the present earth--

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Compare--

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

with-

Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

Do not forget psalm 72.

LA
 

Interplanner

New member
Not really.

Verse one of Rev. ch 21 belongs on the end of chapter 20.

Clearly the contents of Re.ch 21 and 22 speak of the events yet to occur on the present earth--

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Compare--

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

with-

Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

Do not forget psalm 72.

LA


??? why wouldn't the descriptions at the end of ch 21 be part of a general description of the NHNE. The current earth 'had passed away'. Earth had fled.

You'd have to have a line that 'brings you back to this earth.'

And you have to settle it all with 2 Peter 3.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
??? why wouldn't the descriptions at the end of ch 21 be part of a general description of the NHNE. The current earth 'had passed away'. Earth had fled.

You'd have to have a line that 'brings you back to this earth.'

And you have to settle it all with 2 Peter 3.

2 Peter ch 3 has these words--

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This chapter is not a lesson in eschatology.

You must not negate the many words elsewhere of a period of time when the Kingdom of THIS world become subserviant to the Kingdom of God.(with both the kingdoms of Babylon and Esau left out)

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

the first verse of Rev.ch 21 belongs on the end of Ch 20.

LA
 

Interplanner

New member
2 Peter ch 3 has these words--

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This chapter is not a lesson in eschatology.

You must not negate the many words elsewhere of a period of time when the Kingdom of THIS world become subserviant to the Kingdom of God.(with both the kingdoms of Babylon and Esau left out)

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

the first verse of Rev.ch 21 belongs on the end of Ch 20.

LA



Sorry you're drifting here LA:
1, I can't understand your joining the end of 20 and beginning of 21. There is a natural topic break.
2, 2 Pet 3 is not a lesson in eschatology???
3, 'the kingdom of this world has become...' That is true as preached in Christ now, and will be true in the NHNE, since God and Christ are the temple and the light already! If it weren't for 2 Pet 3's explicit reference to actual elements, I wouldn't think the NHNE was even physical--there is no need for the sun. But then it would dilute what he said about the deluge of Noah.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Sorry you're drifting here LA:
1, I can't understand your joining the end of 20 and beginning of 21. There is a natural topic break.

Sorry you are unable to discern--

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Then-

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The change--

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

2, 2 Pet 3 is not a lesson in eschatology???
3, 'the kingdom of this world has become...' That is true as preached in Christ now, and will be true in the NHNE, since God and Christ are the temple and the light already! If it weren't for 2 Pet 3's explicit reference to actual elements, I wouldn't think the NHNE was even physical--there is no need for the sun. But then it would dilute what he said about the deluge of Noah.

When did the Holy city come down from Heaven?

It is future after its completion--

Zep 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
Zep 3:13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
Zep 3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.
Zep 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.
Zep 3:16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.
Zep 3:17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.
Zep 3:18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.
Zep 3:19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.

You are blind.

LA
 

Interplanner

New member
Sorry you are unable to discern--

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Then-

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The change--

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.



When did the Holy city come down from Heaven?

It is future after its completion--

Zep 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
Zep 3:13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
Zep 3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.
Zep 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.
Zep 3:16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.
Zep 3:17 The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.
Zep 3:18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.
Zep 3:19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.

You are blind.

LA



re 20-21.
That's fine. If you go back I don't think you said the same thing. The earth was still there in the mid 21 but maybe you typod for 20.

re the city
Paul speaks of it in very close and meaningful terms. So does the end of Hebrews. It is close enough that we are encouraged by the singing we hear!

No, there is no NHNE yet, but 2 Cor 5 is saying that Christ is the New Creation (not individuals directly, only 'in Him') and that's why I understand why some people think this has already happened. It is typical NT eschatology: everything that is now true in Christ (no divisions, no evil) will come in the NHNE. Some times and somedays, it seems very close.
 
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