The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[beloved57]

Who are the All Christ shall draw to Him ?

Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Who are the All Christ shall draw to Him ? Jesus makes a promise, not a offer, that if a certain condition occurs a certain effect will take place !

Now what is the Promised Effect here ? What is the condition stated for that effect to occur ? So then who are the All ? Its as simple as 2+2 , the All here are the ones drawn to Christ !

If Christ was lifted up for anyone, the evidence of that will be that that one shall be drawn to Christ, and will/shall follow Him !

The word draw here is the key, its the greek word helkó and means:

I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe

properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.

metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel:

It also means in this scripture and Jn 6:44 :

I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all,

Christ is promising to spiritually persuade them to follow Him. Also the word persuade has to do with Faith and or Believing, for instance, the common word for Faith as in Eph 2:8 is the greek word pistis and it means:

pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

And again the word draw helkó means:

I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe

That coincides with the idea of :

I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win or persuade over to myself the hearts of all

Jesus is promising to win over to Faith all for whom He is Lifted up for !

 

[beloved57]

Who are the All Christ shall draw to Him ?2

The word draw helkó also means to lead as in a Shepherd shall lead His Flock Isa 40:11

11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

The word lead nahal means:

to lead or guide to a watering place, bring to a place of rest, refresh

Remember the Promise Jesus makes to them that come to Him Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

And thats what drawing does, it causes them to come unto Him, and the drawing is the result of having been Lifted up on the Cross Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Its the same as when Jesus said of His Sheep in Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

The word Leadeth here exagó means to lead out, to lead forth or to bring forth , fetch out,

to lead by laying hold of, and in this way to bring to the point of destination

Jesus actually lays hold of His Lost Sheep in finding them, its like in the parable Lk 15:4-5

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Notice what He does when He finds it, He layeth it on His shoulders rejoicing, now in order to do that, He must lay hold of it !

Its also like when Paul said of Christ to him Phil 3:12

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

That word apprehended katalambanó means:

to lay hold of so as to make one's own, to obtain, attain to:

properly, take hold of exactly, with decisive initiative (eager self-interest); to grasp something in a forceful (firm) manner; (figuratively) to apprehend (comprehend), "making it one's own."

And this drawing by Christ Jn 12:32 corresponds with His bringing us to God 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh or being lifted up, but quickened by the Spirit:

He died so that He might bring us to God !

All this denotes being cause to come, to approach God as when the Psalmest wrote Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

This causing is the effect of Christ's drawing ! Thats who the All are in Jn 12:32, all that come to God in Christ as a result of Christ being lifted up for them on the Cross !

 

[StanJ]

The word helkō, IN the CONTEXT of where it is used in the Greek tests.
In John 6:44 and 12:32, it is used in the same vane

Vine's defines it as follows;
This less violent significance, usually present in helko, but always absent from suro, is seen in the metaphorical use of helko, to signify "drawing" by inward power, by Divine impulse, Jhn 6:44; 12:32.

 

[beloved57]

The word helkō, IN the CONTEXT of where it is used in the Greek tests.
In John 6:44 and 12:32, it is used in the same vane

Vine's defines it as follows;
This less violent significance, usually present in helko, but always absent from suro, is seen in the metaphorical use of helko, to signify "drawing" by inward power, by Divine impulse, Jhn 6:44; 12:32.

Posts 931-932 did you understand the points I made ?

 

[beloved57]

The all for whom Christ was given to be a ransom for !

1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Also Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

The all for whom He was a ransom for was not all mankind without exception, for scripture never says that or means that, not even close, but its meaning is, all of the Many as indicated in Matt 20:28.

Before we proceed lets look at the word FOR in both of these scriptures about Christ giving Himself a Ransom .

In 1 Tim 2:6 the word for is the greek huper and means:

in behalf of; acc: above.

properly, beyond (above); (figuratively) to extend benefit (help) that reaches beyond the present situation.

Those He gave Himself for receive benefit from it, help

is usually best translated "for the betterment (advantage) of," i.e. focusing on benefit. M. Vincent, "5228 (hypér) signifies something like 'in the interests of the truth . . . concerning.' J. B. Lightfoot (on Gal 1:4) . . . remarks that hypér has 'a sense of interest in,' which is wanting to peri" (WS).

(hypér) naturally expresses conferring benefit, i.e. for the sake of "betterment" (improvement,

This is key, the extending of the help or benefit is not just making it available, but the help and benefit is conferred upon them all.

The word confer actually means To bestow

So these all whom He gave Himself a ransom for, receive a bestowed benefit from it, and of course its a spiritual benefit for their betterment and improvement !

These words denote:

a change for the better; improvement

One of the benefits is that it sets them free ! Its what Jesus had in Mind when He said this Jn 8:36

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

This comes about as an result of the Son giving Himself a Ransom for all whom He gave Himself for !

 

[Bright Raven]

He died for all.

John 3:16 Modern English Version (MEV)

16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[StanJ]

Posts 931-932 did you understand the points I made ?

I was responding to your post 944, please do likewise.

 

[Bright Raven]

I was responding to your post 944, please do likewise.

It has not been written yet?

 

[StanJ]

It has not been written yet?

? ? ?

 

[beloved57]

He died for all.

John 3:16 Modern English Version (MEV)

16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You don't believe that verse or understand it! You don't believe the Gospel! Tulip is the Gospel!

 

[heir]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

Your problem is as it always has been: a flat out refusal to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV! It's due time you recognize the truth!

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[beloved57]

Your problem is as it always has been: a flat out refusal to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV! It's due time you recognize the truth!

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

You have not believed the Gospel, so to quote those verses is meaningless!

 

[heir]

You have not believed the Gospel, so to quote those verses is meaningless!

I trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of my salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and am saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Which is more than I can say for you.

 

[beloved57]

I trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of my salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and am saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Which is more than I can say for you.

You have not believed the Gospel, for TUlip is the Gospel! If you have not believed those verses in the confines of Tulip, you have not believed them or understand them!

 

[heir]

You have not believed the Gospel, for TUlip is the Gospel! If you have not believed those verses in the confines of Tulip, you have not believed them or understand them!

The gospel of Christ that is the power of God to save every one that believeth is the good news of Christ; that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. When one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing IT they are saved and sealed. When did that happen for you? When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation?

 

[beloved57]

The gospel of Christ that is the power of God to save every one that believeth is the good news of Christ; that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. When one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing IT they are saved and sealed. When did that happen for you? When did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation?

You have not believed the Gospel if not through the Teachings of Tulip!

 

[Nanja]

You have not believed the Gospel if not through the Teachings of Tulip!

Precisely!

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Did Jesus die for all men or did he die for a select few? Surely Jesus died for all men and that not everyone takes advantage of this gift. Referring to your passage usage why do you think he only refers to the church when he says "the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep"? It in no way says that the sheep is the saved. It is however mentioning that he does die for the sheep, which can refer to people in general. You used another passage to what the apostle used to emphasize a great love you should give to your wife to be on par to what Jesus did with the church even to death. Mentioning 'church' in no way excludes that he died for everyone still. It is simply not in the text saying that his death is only for his church, it is void of such words and implied word usage. The bible does mention quite clearly in passages like John 3:16, 1 John 2:2 that he died for the church but also the whole world.

1 John 2:2 is especially clear as it says "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." When it says "not only" he is referring to gods church. I say this because the audience he is writing to is believers in Christ Jesus. The verse continues to even say "BUT ALSO" the WHOLE WORLD. I would like to emphasize "but also" it means to include something else. In this case it is to include that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world.

So you say that people have no scripture proof, when they do and you do not. No not everyone is saved. But Jesus died for everyone so that if they do repent and believe they will be saved. You use passages that suit your agenda and ignore those passages that are against it. I would advise against that!

Did you understand the post you quoted of mine ?

 

[beloved57]

The all for whom Christ was given to be a ransom for !2

Redemption is the result of the Ransom, for the ransom payment is so that Redemption may be set in motion; make active , for they must go hand in hand, like we here Ps 49:7

7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: The Lone exception is Jesus Christ, who redeemed His Brethren !

Jer 31:11

11 For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he. This Pictures how the Elect of Christ are ransomed and redeemed out of the power of the devil, the strong man ! See Luke 11:21-23

Hos 11:14

14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

And next, even though the words aren't together in the same verse, they are in the same immediate context here Isa 35:9-10

9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

And notice Vs 8 of the same context Isa 35:8

And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

It is the way that the ransomed and redeemed shall walk therein ! This does not speak of any possibilities or contingency, that it may or may not occur, but its one of the sure shalls of God !

And the way spoken of is none other that Jesus Christ, their Redeemer, He is the Way to God Jn 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And He is that Narrow and Unpopular way Matt 7:14

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

He's that narrow way that Leadeth to Life, Jn 14:6 and its this way all the ransomed shall go 1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Thats the same ransomed of Isa 35:8-10 !

Now if it is never the case for one, then they simply were not part of the All of 1 Tim 2:6 !

 

[StanJ]

Tulip is the Gospel!

Tulip is a flower, NOT the gospel. Jesus is the gospel.