The Lesson of the Crusades and the Modern Islamic Threat

[Nazaroo]

All your justification of the crusades as defense against Muslim expansion ignores the facts that Islam expanded 250 years previously.

A somewhat delayed reaction

Can you give ANY evidence whatever that Islam has stopped expanding
Imperialistically into other countries?

 

[Morpheus]

Yup. Hunting down and slaughtering Jews, man, woman and child, was totally justifiable. Teach us our racist, trash lessons.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=y4S4VJLUDs32gwS9-IKgDA&url=http://hist314.weebly.com/uploads/5/9/0/4/5904310/the_preaching_of_the_first_cruade_and_the_persecution_of_the_jews.pdf&ved=0CC0QFjAE&usg=AFQjCNG9rOxCqX8Fq0j3nPX-vMxEwLdrLA

 

[Nazaroo]

Yup. Hunting down and slaughtering Jews, man, woman and child, was totally justifiable. Teach us our racist, trash lessons.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFjAE&usg=AFQjCNG9rOxCqX8Fq0j3nPX-vMxEwLdrLA

Good article.

It underlines the fact that superstitious and emotionally charged peoples,
when threatened with invasion, and susceptable to xenophobia,
will sometimes take the law into their own hands,
and act out violently on minorities.

As the author shows, this was not ordered nor sanctioned by the Crusades,
and more importantly, most of the local violence against Jews, Gypsies,
and other minorities was done not by Crusaders at all, but unorganized
local mobs of peasants and villagers.

The local violence against Jews and other minorities was horrific,
and tragic, but not authorized nor sanctioned by the Crusades,
nor carried out by the Crusader forces.

In a similar way, many people in Europe were persecuted by secular authorities,
as witches and heretics throughout the Inquisition,
but the church itself did not for the most part arrest people or carry out
sentences. These punishments were done by local constables, secular princes,
with sentencing often carried out by secular courts,
and town sherriffs, using existing laws.

In some cases, roving bands of thugs under the authority of an Abbott
or Bishop or cardinal would scour the land for heretics,
but this was largely a ploy to confiscate property under pretext.

The Inquisition itself began as an honest inquiry into heresy and unfair
commercial practices such as unregulated money-lending etc.
Sadly, it was quickly corrupted into a large-scale nightmare.

This was fueled in large part by the belief that confessions under torture
must be real, and that this was a legitimate way to discover truth.
It has taken centuries for us to learn that confessions under duress
and torture are not worth very much in themselves.
To this day, the lesson has not been learned in some circles.

We can come away with a more nuanced and complex view of the Crusades,
and not succumb to oversimplified stereotyping of the Crusades
as aggressive and wrong.

In fact the Crusades were an emergency defensvie measure against Islamic conquest.

 

[Huckleberry]

Did Jesus ever command us to fight anyone?

The law which Christ came to fulfill, which He never once contradicted or denounced (quite the opposite, in fact it's commonly accepted that He wrote the Mosaic law), not only allows for self defense and the defense of the innocent (including the use of deadly force), but also explicitly calls for the death penalty for quite a few crimes.

Are we commanded to take up arms, go out in the street and kill Muslims or witches or homosexuals? No. In fact, that's expressly forbidden. It's murder.

But don't play games with God's Word and inflate that to a pacifism that starkly contradicts His Word.

 

[Nazaroo]

My view is that the same Jesus that did not condemn self-defense,
and said that the greatest love was to lay down one's life for others,
would reasonably allow the defense of family, community, and nation.

So there remains a place for armies and police, and firemen,
but ultimately we should still rely only on God Himself, not the sword,
or skills or cleverness.

 

[shagster01]

Many people have been falsely taught that the Crusades were both
a military failure, and an evil aggressive act toward the East.

Neither fact is true.

On the one hand, the Crusades were essential and successful in saving Christianity from obliteration,
and on the other hand they were a defensive action,
staving off invasion and driving back the cancer of Islam.

Thanks for pointing out that killing women and children was necessary to save your religion of peace.

 

[Nazaroo]

Thanks for pointing out that killing women and children was necessary to save your religion of peace.

Everybody dies. Its how you live that counts.

Every man will by judged by his own deeds,
and his willingness to take correction from God.

 

[shagster01]

Everybody dies. Its how you live that counts.

Every man will by judged by his own deeds,
and his willingness to take correction from God.

Do you think these terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists could be justified the same way. That they are necessary to save Islam?

 

[Nazaroo]

Do you think these terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists
could be justified the same way.
That they are necessary to save Islam?

The problem is, its not just about tactics.

All kinds of tactics might be justified by armies
to win battles.

What really counts is what your side in a war stands for,
and if you can defend it in a way consistent with your beliefs.

Nothing can ever justify Islam, because it is a
paramilitary cult which promotes slavery, dehumanization of women,
and covert pedophilia including homosexual sodomy of boys.

That being said, there are right and wrong ways to fight them.

 

[republicanchick]

Many people have been falsely taught that the Crusades were both
a military failure, and an evil aggressive act toward the East.

Neither fact is true.

On the one hand, the Crusades were essential and successful in saving Christianity from obliteration,
and on the other hand they were a defensive action,
staving off invasion and driving back the cancer of Islam.
[/yt]

yes but it was those darned Catholics... who are just as bad as ISIS


:jawdrop:

 

[aikido7]

The Muslim LIE of Civilized Spain under Islam

Another piece of propaganda pushed by Muslims
is the idea that Spain under the Muslims was advanced
in culture and science, an easily disproved falsehood.

Islamic Spain - Barbarian Hoards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVqbe7Rmks

Putting down one's enemy or a fellow poster we do not agree with are usual responses to conflict or perceived conflict.

We teach our children and ourselves that there are only two ways to deal with conflict and disagreement: give in or fight back. Not so.

 

[aikido7]

The Muslim LIE of Civilized Spain under Islam

Another piece of propaganda pushed by Muslims
is the idea that Spain under the Muslims was advanced
in culture and science, an easily disproved falsehood.

Islamic Spain - Barbarian Hoards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyVqbe7Rmks

Putting down one's enemy or a fellow poster we do not agree with are usual responses to conflict or perceived conflict. I know this is true because I am all-too-familiar with those same dysfunctional tendencies in myself.

We teach our children and ourselves that there are only two ways to deal with conflict and disagreement: give in or fight back.

Not so.

 

[aikido7]

Eastern revisionists often attempt to slur Crusaders as 'cannibals',
while in fact the one small incident that did occur was a result of
a disastrous famine, and was always considered horrific, even
under the extreme emergency conditions that spawned the crisis.

The Truth about the Cannibal Disaster of the Siege

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwLJsP-LWxM

It would be an amazing thing if we could keep all the good people over here and consign all the evil ones way over there.

Then all we would need to do would be to destroy those evil people and the world's problems would be on their way to be solved.

But that line between good and evil seems to run down the center of every human heart. None of us wants to destroy half of our own heart, though.