Do that (Mt 5:20). :thumb:
The Law can be used lawfully. What do you think this means?
- Thread starter Jacob
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Do that (Mt 5:20). :thumb:
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Well if you don't specify what part your're talking about, then I don't know what you're talking about.
Where is Romans 8 talking about being "born again"?
God told Adam to tend the garden.... later God told him to get out and don't come back.
This is just one example of God's instructions changing in a manner that ONE instruction is exactly the opposite of the other. There MANY cases like this in scripture.
So you believe that some of Gods commands pertain to only some situations and at some times? That's called being dispensational.
I believe that everyone should always obey God. But nobody obeys perfectly, not even believers. That is WHY God's GRACE is needed.
Many around here think that they get "salvation points" by their great "obedience". You seem to also be one of those.
I am already saved and I believe obedience to God is for everyone.
A person who has the Spirit of God dwelling in them has been born again by the Spirit of God. Those who are not born again do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.
I don't see any two of God's commands as contradictions or opposites. I don't know why you would think that I should. I believe this would create confusion if one were to do so. That is, not knowing how to be obedient.
Your comment about being dispensational is not accurate. I know because I grew up under dispensationalism. I am not a dispensationalist. When I said at that time I am telling you that obviously there was the great commission and we tell people that Jesus is the Messiah all the time when we share the gospel. This is not disobeying Jesus. Jesus died, was buried, rose from the dead, appeared to many, and ascended to the right hand of God. There is no danger. He died exactly according to God's plan, meaning He was taken and killed by men but only in God's time, not before. His instruction to His disciples was meaningful, not a promotion of dispensationalism. I believe that they obeyed, but that there came a time when they could tell people Jesus is the Messiah.
A dispensation is a stewardship. God gave Paul a stewardship.
I don't know that Adam even could come back if he had wanted to. Men still work the ground for crops and otherwise, etc.... I don't know that it was specific to the garden of eden.
Of course we need God's grace. But that is how we are saved. We still need to obey God. God's grace says nothing of not obeying God. That is, the grace of God and obedience to God are both Christian truths of teaching or doctrine. We are to obey God. God's creation is to obey Him, mankind and more. Whether Jew or Gentile the gospel has been proclaimed and people have been rescued from sin unto obedience. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves it is the gift of God not as a result of works lest any man should boast.
When a person obeys the gospel they believe in the finished work of Christ and they are born again and obey God rather than disobey Him. They have repented of their sins and the Holy Spirit now dwells in them. They are fruitful in every good work God has for them to do. You can only be saved by Jesus, and having been saved we are to obey God, doing the good works that He has for us to do.
Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Yes, and Paul wrote much about misuse of the law with the idea of establishing self righteousness, had the falling out with Peter over just such legalism. Legalism is, of course, at odds with the grace of God by the blood of Christ, is in opposition of only the Lord Jesus having merit, only the Lord having perfect holiness required of God, having fulfilled the law. For a person to be trying to establish their own merit, their own holiness, is to diminish the work of the Lord, is to call into question why the blood of Christ is even necessary, if man can establish merit by the law and be saved. It's entirely opposed to salvation by faith, not works.
This is not to say being a righteous person is not the calling of all in Christ, which is to keep all moral law, and more, actually, since the Lord Jesus pointed out sins of thought and intent, hate being murder, lust being adultery, that we are to be new creatures, of an inner righteous man, not an outwardly righteous legalist, like the Pharisees, who were black, evil, in their hearts. This is part of walking in the Spirit, though God working with us and in us, not keeping a checklist we really shouldn't need to keep, as repentant and born again, not ever believing we are holy for any filthy rags righteousness, scripture teaching we will only be free of corruptible flesh in glory, when we put on incorruption, 1 Corinthians 15:53.
God's commandments are, of course, righteous and holy, the law not unlawful. So, the law is lawful, when we don't lie, steal, murder, adulter, and so on, because we seek righteousness, have a progressive sanctification in our walk, are being conformed to the image of Christ, because we are led by the Spirit, have repented and don't desire sin, this having nothing to do with any works religion of saving righteousness we have, apart from Christ's imputed righteousness, to save us. It is simply unlawful to use the law, which actually convicts us of sin and shows that we are failures and imperfect, to be engaged in a program to the end that we think the law can show us as anything else but failures, rather we humbly know we need the blood of Christ and the grace of God, until glory.
It should be pointed out that there being no condemnation for sin, our judicial position in Christ, is separate from the call to walk in the light of Christ, that sin will be dealt with by God, that He chastises His children, as is explained in Hebrews 12. To say we can just ignore sin, a major theme of the Bible from cover to cover, the primary complaint God has against us, this concept God puts on blinders and the blood of Christ is cheap, I would urge everybody to carefully read Hebrews 12, unless, if you are truly born again, you wish to have some hard times, learning lessons you need to learn, to start off with that God is not mocked. There are some with a complacency over sin that, hopefully, are truly saved and will suffer the Lord's rod in their lives, and hopefully not sin unto death. Otherwise, as Hebrews 12 points out, if one is living easy with sin, doesn't seem to have the Spirit convicting them of sin and leading them, they may well wonder whether their faith is saving faith, if they're not, in fact, an unrepentant, Hebrews 12 bastard?
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
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Body part
Gen 2:15 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:15) And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 3:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:24) So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
So first God puts Adam in the garden to dress it and keep it and later God kicks Adam OUT of that garden and will not let him back in. See the difference?
Make up your mind Jacob.... Do you obey Matthew 16:20 or not?
Why do you call THEIR commission "the great commission"? What about the greater commission that God gave to Paul?
Indeed God did! That is the dispensation that is CURRENT today.
Get yourself a Bible and read it.
You seem unable to see that it is NOT by OUR obedience that we receive GRACE. Why the confusion Jacob?
Do you not see that the pattern that God shows through Paul is good works AFTER receiving grace?
Totally agree. But it is NOT the obedience that saves us but the grace by faith.
Indeed.
I see these scriptures here and I have learned from them. Thank you for sharing them.
What you want me to say is that Jesus was not speaking to me here or I need to obey what Jesus said here.
I do not believe as you do. If there was a great commission there was not a greater commission to Paul.
God entrusted something to Paul, He gave him a stewardship. This has nothing to do with a period of time. It has to do with his ministry.
I have answered on this question before. Your verses are clear enough for all to see and I accept what scriptures says / teaches.
I don't have any confusion here. I don't believe obedience brings about grace.
Of course. These good works are done in faith.
For by grace you have been saved through faith.
Bradley D
Well-known member
" Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good" (Romans 7:12).
Epoisses
New member
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 2Cor. 3:7
Bradley D
Well-known member
Because they were unworthy of facing such glory just as we are. We are only able to come near such glory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Epoisses
New member
The ministration of the Spirit exceeds in glory.
JonahofAkron
New member
Bradley D
Well-known member
"If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!" (2 Cor. 3:9).
Yes, because of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Take a seat.
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Body part
You're welcome.
This is my point. Some people cannot understand that IN the scripture God is telling SOME people to DO some THING at some TIME.
You seem to be one of those people.
The so-called "great commission" (which BTW, the Bible never calls it) was given to CERTAIN people and those people are NOT you.
All of God's dealings with mankind occur over time. God did NOT reveal His ENTIRE will at ONE MOMENT in time.
If you think that the so-called "great commission" is for YOUR obedience, then you are confused.
I have responded in such a way as to show that we should obey Jesus' commands but that this command was for a specific time period for His disciples.
I understand the words The Great Commission are not in scripture. Here is Jesus' instruction to His eleven disciples.
Matthew 28:16-20 NASB - 16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
I believe people still need to become disciples and be taught to observe what Jesus commanded.
you can't obey Jacob