ECT The Holy Con Artists

ZacharyB

Active member
The word became flesh through God speaking His word,
not by birth in Mary, as also previously promised
.
Line 1 ... first time I've heard this idea (God's spoken word became flesh)
Line 2 ... sorry, what was also previously promised?

God's spoken word became flesh
OR--
The Word (God) came from heaven and became flesh

John 1 (NKJV):
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him,
and without Him nothing was made that was made.


Do you believe the word (not God, but the spoken word) in the above verses
should be labelled as "it", not "He" and "Him"?

Ahhhh, we have a problem!
Several verses (ref. in the OP) say Jesus created all things.
But, you believe God created all things by His spoken word, right?
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Continuing on from a previous post ...

“… narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14)

“And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and
count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has
laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? ... So likewise,
whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
(Luke 14:27-33)


Again, so much for the easy believism and easy grace gospel,
which the holy con artists believe in.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Continuing on from a previous post ...

“… narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14)

“And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and
count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has
laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? ... So likewise,
whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
(Luke 14:27-33)


Again, so much for the easy believism and easy grace gospel,
which the holy con artists believe in.

Saved and discipleship are two clear different things......can you say from reading Paul's epistles or Acts that all were disciples?

...has it ever been so that the whole church was disciples only?

...how is YOUR tower coming along Zach?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Line 1 ... first time I've heard this idea (God's spoken word became flesh)
Line 2 ... sorry, what was also previously promised?

God's spoken word became flesh
OR--
The Word (God) came from heaven and became flesh

John 1 (NKJV):
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him,
and without Him nothing was made that was made.


Do you believe the word (not God, but the spoken word) in the above verses
should be labelled as "it", not "He" and "Him"?

Ahhhh, we have a problem!
Several verses (ref. in the OP) say Jesus created all things.
But, you believe God created all things by His spoken word, right?


The verses which seem to say Jesus created all things, actually say the Father made all things by Jesus Christ where the by means with the finished product in mind.

Otherwise you have two Gods in your mind who eternally existed before this time began.

LA
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Continuing on from a previous post ...

“… narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to (eternal) life,
and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14)

“And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and
count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has
laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? ... So likewise,
whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
(Luke 14:27-33)


Again, so much for the easy believism and easy grace gospel,
which the holy con artists believe in.

Don't you understand that the church is made up of the poor, the weak and the foolish?

People who have destroyed their lives and the lives of others, broken men and women?

Struggling men and women?

You'll never be a shepherd in God's church sir, you do not have the shepherd's heart, you do not understand sheep, how they fret and tremble...if you beat them they will collapse before you, the life just goes outta them.

You do not understand God.

If you did you would be like Paul who became a slave, a LOVE slave to God yes but how? by serving the church.

You did not read how that Paul yearned over them but refrained from visiting lest he would have to be severe, how that he was like a mother nursing her children among them. You read a different Paul.

Oh that God would melt your heart, oh that He would show you His gentle heart toward His people. Oh that you would see the preciousness of even the least of them...greater than the baptiser.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Saved and discipleship are two clear different things......
can you say from reading Paul's epistles or Acts that all were disciples?
...has it ever been so that the whole church was disciples only?

Yes, there's always been the question of believers vs. disciples.
Perhaps, we can say they are the wheat and the tares.

But, the dire warnings about eternal death are for everyone in the churches!

So, even your most-holy disciples had to knuckle down to these warnings!
And that's exactly what the warnings were for ...
... to ensure that God's special elect would knuckle down and be saved.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
The verses which seem to say Jesus created all things,
actually say the Father made all things by Jesus Christ
where the by means with the finished product in mind.
Otherwise you have two Gods in your mind who eternally existed before this time began.
I addressed this creation issue quite fully in post #91 in the "Jesus is God" thread.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Yes, there's always been the question of believers vs. disciples.
Perhaps, we can say they are the wheat and the tares.

But, the dire warnings about eternal death are for everyone in the churches!

So, even your most-holy disciples had to knuckle down to these warnings!
And that's exactly what the warnings were for ...
... to ensure that God's special elect would knuckle down and be saved.
"Knuckle down"? You're not going to make it.

Even if you don't understand the revelation given to Paul and pretend that you're a kingdom Israelite, you still can't read the scripture correctly:
Mat 11:28-30 KJV Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
P.S. What are "the churches"?
 

ZacharyB

Active member
You did not read how that Paul yearned over them but refrained from visiting lest he would have to be severe,
how that he was like a mother nursing her children among them. You read a different Paul.
God is both loving and a just and severe judge.
I can understand separation of the unworthy from God.
But, I cannot understand separation of the unworthy in a fiery hell.
Perhaps, this is how incredibly unfathomingly seriously ... God abhors sin!

I have already explained that ...
Jesus and Paul were hesitant to be overwhelming with their dire warnings!

Lest it demoralize the sheep, etc. ... let alone the whole of society.

I have already explained that ...
Jesus and Paul were hesitant to be overwhelming with their dire warnings!

However, they did sneak in their warnings along with everything else.

I have already explained that ...
Jesus and Paul were hesitant to be overwhelming with their dire warnings!

So, how many times do I have to explain it to emotional women like you ...
who should be sitting upstairs -- keeping their mouths shut (as Paul insisted on)?
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Not that your conclusion on this matter is wrong, but that isn't what the Bible says.
It says the Word became flesh. The Word became that baby.
Yes, I'll say it for the second time:
This indeed could be the case ...
and I could indeed be wrong about ...
the Word (God) indwelling the man "called" Jesus.

However ... I am just reminded (by who else?) that ...
JESUS CAME TO BE AN EXAMPLE FOR US ... how we are to live our lives!
Shall we run down the list? ... No, it's too long.
God indwelling the human body, humility, obedience to God's commands, etc.

Please, no shouting from that lady up in the choir loft!
No teaching of men allowed, says the highly esteemed Paul.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Many hearty greetings and salutations! lol
The red is the key!
Do things His way ... hey, be a disciple!
And thou wilt have all of your BBB (blessed blue below)!

In John 14 it says ... the Holy Spirit will reveal "all things"
In Matt 7 it says ... to those who knock, seek, and ask
I say ... to those who come with an OPEN heart and mind
(uncluttered from "the doctrines of men").

Mat 11 KJV
(28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
(29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Yes, there's always been the question of believers vs. disciples.
Perhaps, we can say they are the wheat and the tares.

But, the dire warnings about eternal death are for everyone in the churches!

So, even your most-holy disciples had to knuckle down to these warnings!
And that's exactly what the warnings were for ...
... to ensure that God's special elect would knuckle down and be saved.

Paul warned the Ephesian elders about you, false prophet, teaching perverse things, not sparing the flock.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
God is both loving and a just and severe judge.
I can understand separation of the unworthy from God.
But, I cannot understand separation of the unworthy in a fiery hell.
Perhaps, this is how incredibly unfathomingly seriously ... God abhors sin!

I have already explained that ...
Jesus and Paul were hesitant to be overwhelming with their dire warnings!

Lest it demoralize the sheep, etc. ... let alone the whole of society.

I have already explained that ...
Jesus and Paul were hesitant to be overwhelming with their dire warnings!

However, they did sneak in their warnings along with everything else.

I have already explained that ...
Jesus and Paul were hesitant to be overwhelming with their dire warnings!

So, how many times do I have to explain it to emotional women like you ...
who should be sitting upstairs -- keeping their mouths shut (as Paul insisted on)?

So you are not caught in a sin which overwhelms you, which you can by no means get the victory .....

Isn't that why you disappear periodically and reinvent yourself on your return? God will expose you as He has exposed others of your ilk.
You think like the others [Lazybones,shackles GsT etc] that you are too holy to join an assembly but the truth is that God drives you out from among His sheep.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Totty,

At some point, you will come to realize that
you are the one preaching a false gospel.
Your false gospel is of the Laodicean church
of this age, perhaps more than any other age.
Your false gospel is one of no accountability.
It is a gospel of an age of unparallelled prosperity.
It is a gospel of a "What me worry!" generation.
Your false gospel teaches grace with no obedience.
May the Lord God have mercy on your soul.

P.S. Jesus says your hatred of me is the equivalent of
murder, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in her.
 

Right Divider

Body part
The red is the key!
Do things His way ... hey, be a disciple!
And thou wilt have all of your BBB (blessed blue below)!

In John 14 it says ... the Holy Spirit will reveal "all things"
In Matt 7 it says ... to those who knock, seek, and ask
I say ... to those who come with an OPEN heart and mind
(uncluttered from "the doctrines of men").

Mat 11 KJV
(28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
(29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
You're such a confused zealot. You need to come to God His way, which is currently purely by His grace and NOT through His earthly teaching to His people, Israel.

Keep reading all of Matthew IN CONTEXT and you might "learn of Him".
Mat 15:24 KJV But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Totty,

At some point, you will come to realize that
you are the one preaching a false gospel.
Your false gospel is of the Laodicean church
of this age, perhaps more than any other age.
Your false gospel is one of no accountability.
It is a gospel of an age of unparallelled prosperity.
It is a gospel of a "What me worry!" generation.
Your false gospel teaches grace with no obedience.
May the Lord God have mercy on your soul.

P.S. Jesus says your hatred of me is the equivalent of
murder, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in her.

My gospel teaches no such thing, what it DOES teach is that just as being "holy" wasn't what saved us at the first nor will being holy be the factor which will keep us saved. THAT is what we object to as a FALSE gospel.

You cain't deny the things I said about you, and I am as sure of them as though you yourself told...in fact it is what your posts DO tell me about you....holiness shines in a person but never flaunts itself.

God has an interest in ENSURING that you fall and that you fall ever more disasterously...He wants you to know that you are on the wrong path....He will withdraw His presence from you at critical times and you will fall flat on your face.

The true way to the sanctified life is KNOWLEDGE, spiritual knowledge, knowing that you have been taken out of the sin realm forever, you died with Christ and are dead to sin.

See the attracting force of sin is the forbidding of it, we do it in the dark, we hide...but with the law taken out of the way, and the knowledge that God is watching over us, just takes all the power out of sin...you give it up for what it is, what the bible calls it FOLLY.

Your way of struggling against it, oh dear, just empowers sin.

Walk in the Spirit and fulfil not the desires of the flesh.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
So you are not caught in a sin which overwhelms you, which you can by no means get the victory .....

Isn't that why you disappear periodically and reinvent yourself on your return? God will expose you as He has exposed others of your ilk.
You think like the others [Lazybones,shackles GsT etc] that you are too holy to join an assembly but the truth is that God drives you out from among His sheep.

If you only knew and understood.

LA
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
If you only knew and understood.

LA

This is the essence of the con....they try to pretend they have a holiness that ordinary Christians do not have....if you become their little disciples they will teach you.

Jesus Himself is our Sanctification, the robe of righteousness was given to us when we were saved...it is gorgeous, bedecked with rare and beautiful gems. All we ever need is to PUT ON Christ
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
This is the essence of the con....they try to pretend they have a holiness that ordinary Christians do not have....if you become their little disciples they will teach you.

Jesus Himself is our Sanctification, the robe of righteousness was given to us when we were saved...it is gorgeous, bedecked with rare and beautiful gems. All we ever need is to PUT ON Christ

Then you better get a move on.

LA
 
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