ECT The Gospel of Grace--Not Made Known Until Paul

[Interplanner]

You are slow to learn, buddy.

I never said that "grace" started with Paul! Over and over I have said that Paul was the first to preach the heart and soul of the "gospel of grace," that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).



You can believe what you want but what you believe is contradicted by the three verses which I quoted where Paul speaks of the "dispensation of grace" which was committed to him.

Actually grace never was removed since Gen 3's proto-gospel. It was always there. There is no such word as 'blessing' without grace. But what happened was that Judaism was introduced. Not as an alternative but to prove that even the most informed ethne would need to be 'steered' to grace or would ruin itself. Judaism was withdrawn from God's redemptive work, Gal 3-4; it's removal appears to some to be a change of mind, but no such thing was intended.

 

[turbosixx]

And I agree. What do you suppose was the objective of the Twelve?

My point is that no matter how the pie is sliced, it is still pie.

There are those on TOL who claim the pie must be sliced by Paul, no one else ever sliced pie his way and if Paul didn't slice it we might as well discard it, throw it away.

The Twelve preached Jesus is the Christ and Paul preached Jesus is the Christ.

Those are the two gospels about Jesus as Savior. Feel free to pick one.

I'm with you. There is only one gospel.

 

[turbosixx]

You are slow to learn, buddy.

I'm sorry if I don't fully understand what you're trying to tell me. I am trying.

I never said that "grace" started with Paul! Over and over I have said that Paul was the first to preach the heart and soul of the "gospel of grace," that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

This is what I don't understand. The letters Paul wrote telling about this dispensation of grace are to people who have been already converted and not all of them by Paul. If grace didn't start with Paul and we see people being saved in Christ before Paul, why put so much importance on the fact that Paul was the first to preach it?

You can believe what you want but what you believe is contradicted by the three verses which I quoted where Paul speaks of the "dispensation of grace" which was committed to him.

What do you mean by it was committed to him? When you say that it makes it sound like it was committed to him and him alone. If that's the case then it sounds like it started with him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

This is what I don't understand. The letters Paul wrote telling about this dispensation of grace are to people who have been already converted and not all of them by Paul. If grace didn't start with Paul and we see people being saved in Christ before Paul, why put so much importance on the fact that Paul was the first to preach it?

I have already given you an answer to that question. The Scriptures reveal that the responsibility under the "dispensation of grace" is to preach the "gospel of grace." And therefore the present dispensation began in the Mid-Acts period of time when Paul began to preach that Gospel. Therfore, the following things do not belong to this dispensation:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

What do you mean by it was committed to him? When you say that it makes it sound like it was committed to him and him alone. If that's the case then it sounds like it started with him.

At one place Paul says that the dispensation was committed to him and another place he says that it was given to him. In either case, it was given to him or committed to Him by God.He also referred to the gospel which he preached to the Gentiles as "my gospel." And before the Acts period ended there is no evidence that the "gospel of grace" was preached by anyone else.

 

[Interplanner]

I have already given you an answer to that question. The Scriptures reveal that the responsibility under the "dispensation of grace" is to preach the "gospel of grace." And therefore the present dispensation began in the Mid-Acts period of time when Paul began to preach that Gospel. Therfore, the following things do not belong to this dispensation:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

At one place Paul says that the dispensation was committed to him and another place he says that it was given to him. In either case, it was given to him or committed to Him by God.He also referred to the gospel which he preached to the Gentiles as "my gospel." And before the Acts period ended there is no evidence that the "gospel of grace" was preached by anyone else.

The lines at the end of Mark aren't another gospel; they are just saying those who preach will have God's protection.

Unless you have an extremely bizarre definition of grace, it began in Gen 3, and always was apart from law.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The lines at the end of Mark aren't another gospel; they are just saying those who preach will have God's protection.

It is saying that those who believe will have these gifts bestowed by the Spirit:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

Obviously those things are in effect during the present dispensation so they belong to the past dispensation, as does the "gospel" spoken of in the same passage.

Unless you have an extremely bizarre definition of grace, it began in Gen 3, and always was apart from law.

I have never argued against that fact. My point is that the heart and soul of the gospel of grace was not revealed or preached by anyone before Paul, the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

 

[Interplanner]

It is saying that those who believe will have these gifts bestowed by the Spirit:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

Obviously those things are in effect during the present dispensation so they belong to the past dispensation, as does the "gospel" spoken of in the same passage.



I have never argued against that fact. My point is that the heart and soul of the gospel of grace was not revealed or preached by anyone before Paul, the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

Your middle lines are confusing about present and past...