The Good that Child Protective Services Does

[genuineoriginal]

The Bible that you're reading from must say something different than mine:

"4For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Investigating the scalding of a baby with boiling water because daddy was high on drugs and baby wouldn't stop crying (they like to be fed now and again) is something that falls under the jurisdiction of government per Romans 13.

If it is a crime, send the police.
CPS is not needed at all in that situation.

Now, show me in the Bible where letting children walk to a neighborhood park constitutes "unsubstantiated child neglect" and is justification for government taking the children away from the parents.

Has Child Protective Services Gone Too Far? Earlier this year, a Maryland couple, Alexander and Danielle Meitiv, made international news after two run-ins with Child Protective Services, sparked by their decision to let their children, ages 10 and 6, walk to neighborhood parks by themselves. As self-described “free-range parents,” the Meitivs are committed to giving their kids freedom from constant adult oversight. According to an interview with Danielle in Psychology Today, after the second incident, a social worker demanded that Alexander sign a “temporary safety plan” saying that his children would be supervised at all times until CPS could do a follow-up. When he balked, the social worker threatened to have the children taken away from him immediately and called the police. The couple were ultimately found “responsible for unsubstantiated child neglect,” which Danielle calls “an Orwellian judgment,” adding that their lawyer describes it as “‘legal purgatory,’ because it seems to be meaningless in plain English, yet it’s like a cloud hanging over our heads.”

​

 

[aCultureWarrior]

If it is a crime, send the police.
CPS is not needed at all in that situation.

Child Protection Services is one of the many divisions of law enforcement, a division that only investigates matters where harm/danger to children is involved. CPS doesn't make any physical arrests, they pass information onto other authorities and arrests are made by the police.

Now, show me in the Bible where letting children walk to a neighborhood park constitutes "unsubstantiated child neglect" and is justification for government taking the children away from the parents.

Could you give me more information on this case:

1). What City did this take place in?
2). What neighborhood in this respective City did this take place in?
3). Is this park known as a hang out for drug dealers/addicts? Have there been crimes (robberies, rapes, the molestation of children) reported in this park? If so, why were 10 and 6 year old children allowed to frequent that park unsupervised?

Again: In order for me to comment on the case, I would need to know more information. Since this appears to be a closed case, perhaps you could access CPS documents and police reports on the case and link them to your reply?

 

[drbrumley]

The Bible that you're reading from must say something different than mine:

"4For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

How you disagree with GO's post:

The civil government is to execute wrath on people that have been proven to have committed a crime.

is plain looney on your part...

:noid:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

How you disagree with GO's post:



is plain looney on your part...

:noid:

What entity would do the investigation of criminal activity? What entity would make the arrest? What entity would hold proceedings to establish guilt?

All of those things lead up to the punishment phase.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Child Protection Services is one of the many divisions of law enforcement

CPS acts without due process, they are an abomination.

Again: In order for me to comment on the case, I would need to know more information.

You are quibbling to divert attention against the fact that CPS destroys more lives than it helps.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

CPS acts without due process, they are an abomination.

I've supplied evidence to show otherwise.

You are quibbling to divert attention against the fact that CPS destroys more lives than it helps.

One would think that the Governors, Attorney Generals, law enforcement agencies and the citizens of each respective State that CPS operates in would do something if that were the case.

BTW, have you come up with a viable solution to replace Child Protective Services or do you believe there is even a need for these investigative units that operate in each respective State under the authority and guidance of those respective States?

 

[genuineoriginal]

One would think that the Governors, Attorney Generals, law enforcement agencies and the citizens of each respective State that CPS operates in would do something if that were the case.

They seem to be as blind to the problem as you are.

BTW, have you come up with a viable solution to replace Child Protective Services or do you believe there is even a need for these investigative units that operate in each respective State under the authority and guidance of those respective States?

Considering the great harm done to children by CPS and the foster system, it would be better for the children if CPS did not exist at all in any form.
This would not be acceptable to the people that think it is the government's job to save us from our own choices, but I am opposed to any form of "Nanny State".

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
One would think that the Governors, Attorney Generals, law enforcement agencies and the citizens of each respective State that CPS operates in would do something if that were the case.

They seem to be as blind to the problem as you are.

That's quite a conspiracy theory, especially since each of the 50+ CPS agencies in the US are individually governed at the State level.


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
BTW, have you come up with a viable solution to replace Child Protective Services or do you believe there is even a need for these investigative units that operate in each respective State under the authority and guidance of those respective States?

Considering the great harm done to children by CPS and the foster system, it would be better for the children if CPS did not exist at all in any form.

Investigative services that protect the well-being of children shouldn't exist in any form.

Wow, I've known for a long time that is the stance of the Libertarian movement (hence me talking about Murray Rothbard and Walter Block and how the Libertarian movement sees children as "property"), but thank you for admitting it in writing.

This would not be acceptable to the people that think it is the government's job to save us from our own choices, but I am opposed to any form of "Nanny State".

The only problem with that statement is that agencies that protect children are "saving children from their parent(s) or guardians poor choices".

 

[genuineoriginal]

That's quite a conspiracy theory, especially since each of the 50+ CPS agencies in the US are individually governed at the State level.

It is not a conspiracy theory, it is a theory about human stupidity.

As of October 2017, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrat, 24% identified as Republican, and 42% as Independent.

​

31% + 24% = 55%
Gallop has identified that 55% of registered voters in the USA are too stupid to be trusted to make policy decisions.

Investigative services that protect the well-being of children shouldn't exist in any form.

Correct.
It may sound nice to you to have a government agency that is created to "protect the well-being of children" that will carry out that mission by breaking up families and by taking away the children and putting them in foster homes where most of them will end up being sexually assaulted, neglected, abused, sold into prostitution, or star in snuff films,

This Orwellian destruction of the rights of Americans to "protect the children" needs to stop, since it is destroying our society.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

As we've seen in this thread, Judeo-Christian beliefs (in this case the protection of children against harm, whether it be accidental or purposely done) and Libertarian beliefs cannot coexist. If Libertarians are able to get control of child protective services, it would be closed down and there would be no agency to investigate the horrific things that are done to children by adults.

Pray to God and fight with every ounce of strength that you have so that Libertarians aren't successful, as there are already enough messed up children in our society with recreational drugs, pornography, homosexuality and abortion being readily available to them by these evil adults.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Judeo-Christian beliefs (in this case the protection of children against harm, whether it be accidental or purposely done)

You are mistaken about Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Judeo-Christian beliefs are about how you treat your own children.

Proverbs 22:6 7 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.​

Judeo-Christian beliefs do not say you can kidnap another person's children for any reason.

Exodus 21:16 CJB 16 “Whoever kidnaps someone must be put to death, regardless of whether he has already sold him or the person is found still in his possession.​

According to the Bible, CPS employees are to be put to death because they kidnap children.

If Libertarians are able to get control of child protective services, it would be closed down and there would be no agency to investigate the horrific things that are done to children by adults.

If CPS is closed down, then millions of children will not suffer from the horrors of being taken away from their parents for frivolous reasons and put into the horror of the foster care system.

there are already enough messed up children in our society with recreational drugs, pornography, homosexuality and abortion being readily available to them by these evil adults.

Most of them have been messed up by the foster care system and the inhumane system that destroys families on nothing more than baseless gossip and rumors that are used by CPS to kidnap children without due process.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

You are mistaken about Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Judeo-Christian beliefs are about how you treat your own children.
Proverbs 22:6
7 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Thank you for showing why law enforcement agencies to investigate harm against children have been established in each US State and territory: Because people aren't bringing up children in a biblical manner.

The prosecution rests it's case.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The prosecution rests it's case.

Thank you for showing that you side with The Accuser (in Hebrew: HaSatan).

 

[ok doser]

Thank you for showing why law enforcement agencies to investigate harm against children have been established in each US State and territory: Because people aren't bringing up children in a biblical manner.

Bringing up children in homes with homosexual "parents" is your idea of a biblical manner?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Bringing up children in homes with homosexual "parents" is your idea of a biblical manner?

Since Libertarians took over our laws and culture, homosexuals, drug addicts, pornographers, you known those behaviors that Libertarians refer to as "liberty", have been able to adopt and raise children in the immoral atmospheres that those people live in.
When the homosexual does what homosexuals do, molest their adopted child[ren], when the drug addict does what drug addicts do, put the baby in a microwave to make it stop crying, and when pornographers do what pornographers do, share pictures of naked children on the internet, that is when child protect services is called in.

Darn, don't cha just hate it when Libertarians are denied their "liberty"?

 

[ok doser]

... homosexuals ... have been able to adopt and raise children in the immoral (atmosphere) that those people live in.

And CPS allows this?

And you believe this is a "biblical manner"?

 

[Gary K]

Since Libertarians took over our laws and culture, homosexuals, drug addicts, pornographers, you known those behaviors that Libertarians refer to as "liberty", have been able to adopt and raise children in the immoral atmospheres that those people live in.

acw keeps on getting more humorous all the time. Imagine this: Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for President in the last election managed to get all of 3% of the vote and acw says Libertarians have taken over the laws and culture of the land. How ignorant can you get? Nationwide Libertarians hold 168 positions of political office. What a tight grasp upon the nation's laws and culture. Wow. Libertarians have a massive hold on government and culture through their massive majorities in state, local, and federal governments. ***rolls eyes***

I know you hate libertarians, acw, but you need to come back to reality and understand the parties to blame for the destruction of US culture are the Democrats and the RINO Republicans. You know, the ones who control the government that you love so much. They are the ones who hold all the power. The Libertarians are basically powerless. The actual Socialist party holds approximately twice the number of offices the Libertarians do. The Democrat in name only, but socialist party in reality, holds so many I can't find a single graph for total numbers. They are listed by houses of Congress and maybe state by state. RINOs are almost without number too. Your hatred has so warped you you don't even live in reality any more.

 

[drbrumley]

acw keeps on getting more humorous all the time.

Indeed!!!!

Imagine this: Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for President in the last election managed to get all of 3% of the vote and acw says Libertarians have taken over the laws and culture of the land. How ignorant can you get? Nationwide Libertarians hold 168 positions of political office. What a tight grasp upon the nation's laws and culture. Wow. Libertarians have a massive hold on government and culture through their massive majorities in state, local, and federal governments. ***rolls eyes***

I know you hate libertarians, acw, but you need to come back to reality and understand the parties to blame for the destruction of US culture are the Democrats and the RINO Republicans. You know, the ones who control the government that you love so much. They are the ones who hold all the power. The Libertarians are basically powerless. The actual Socialist party holds approximately twice the number of offices the Libertarians do. The Democrat in name only, but socialist party in reality, holds so many I can't find a single graph for total numbers. They are listed by houses of Congress and maybe state by state. RINOs are almost without number too. Your hatred has so warped you you don't even live in reality any more.

Gary Johnson was never a libertarian.....he may have ran as one.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Since Libertarians took over our laws and culture, homosexuals, drug addicts, pornographers, you known those behaviors that Libertarians refer to as "liberty", have been able to adopt and raise children in the immoral atmospheres that those people live in.

Imagine this: Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for President in the last election managed to get all of 3% of the vote and acw says Libertarians have taken over the laws and culture of the land.

I'm sorry that you thought I was talking about the Libertarian Party (I pretty much always use the Big L when talking about Libertarianism as opposed to the little l because the two are one in the same).

I was referring to our laws and culture embracing Libertarian doctrine:

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.
We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.
Consequently, we defend each person’s right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.
https://www.lp.org/platform/

With abortion, homosexuality, pornography, adultery, out of wedlock sex/cohabitation and certain kinds of recreational drug use being legal and morally acceptable by the vast majority of society, our nation's laws and culture reflects Libertarian values (I really shouldn't refer to the Libertarian culture of death as a value).

In regards to how this relates to CPS investigations: Let's say that mommy's shack up boyfriend for the month was asked to watch little 2 year old Nathan, but being that it's a day that ends with "y", daddy for the month wants to get high off of meth. Under Libertarian doctrine, meth using shack up daddy of the month shouldn't have to sacrifice his values of wanting to get high for the benefit of little Nathan. While mommy's shack up meth addict daddy of the month does his meth thing, little Nathan wanders out into the street and is almost hit by a car.

Hence CPS involvement.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Child Abuse by Government
By Steven Greenhut
February 20, 2008

What kind of society rips a 17-year-old autistic boy from his loving home and places him in a state-run mental institution, where he is given heavy doses of drugs, kept physically restrained, kept away from his family, deprived of books and other mental stimulation and is left alone to rot?`

Certainly not a free or humane one.

Yet that’s exactly what has happened to Nate Tseglin, after a teacher called Child Protective Services, the county agency charged with protecting children from many forms of abuse and given power to remove children from their family homes in certain circumstances. The teacher reported seeing self-inflicted scratches on Nate’s body and complained about the doctor-approved arm restraints his parents used to keep Nate from hurting himself. Nate remains in Fairview Developmental Center (formerly Fairview State Hospital) in Costa Mesa, labeled a danger to himself and others, while his parents fight a lonely battle to bring their son back home...

Parents, government clash over autistic son’s care

Nov. 12, 2016
Nate Tseglin was living in a filthy, locked bedroom that reeked of urine, scratching himself to the point of bleeding, making himself vomit and banging his head on walls in his parents’ apartment, police say.
When panic attacks seized him, the 22-year-old Irvine man sometimes kicked, punched and bit – injuring family, caretakers, medical professionals and law enforcement, according to police and public records.
Tseglin has Asperger’s syndrome, which is a form of autism, and post-traumatic stress disorder. For years, the U.S.-born man was under the care of his parents, Russian Jewish immigrants Ilya and Riva Tseglin.
Five months ago, local authorities and mental health officials removed Nate Tseglin from the family’s Irvine apartment, committed him to a psychiatric hospital and charged his parents with misdemeanor crimes, saying they neglected him.
https://www.ocregister.com/2012/11/12/parents-government-clash-over-autistic-sons-care/

Don't cha just hate it when there's more to the story?