I am asking the questions here
I dont know... I dont really concern myself with future events..so I havent studied them,,just asking questions is all.
and that is a good thing
the four horsemen
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
and that is a good thing
Arsenios
Well-known member
Nor should it, if we desire salvation...
Then God Bless Islam...
For they are giving up their Salvation...
In order that we should find ours...
In the Tribulation(s) that lead to Salvation...
Following Christ
Even to His Tribulation on the Holy Cross...
Arsenios
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how is that working for christians in the east?
can you find a bible?
can you find a church?
do you wait around for someone to bring you one?
or
is it your job to spread the gospel?
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Who are the four horsemen of the first four seals?
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
The rider on the white horse is the antichrist, who would imitate the Lord Jesus Christ, but is all about militancy. He is full of pomp and a warrior, set on conquest. "Anti" not only means against, but instead of. Antichrist is the devil's false messiah, the devil's counterfeit.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
The world will receive the antichrist as a hero, riding in on a white horse. The antichrist will be crafty, will have people believing he's brought world peace, and he will be revered by people.
Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
He's Satan's master man, all evil dictators, rolled up in one. The red horse is murderous conflicts, war, red the color of blood, and the real chaos ensues as a result of a spirit of hatred, which will have peoples killing each other. The evil of antichrist will result in evil in the world, as night follows day, hatred in men's depraved hearts.
Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Hatred will be unrestrained. The tribulation conflicts will not only be among nations, but within peoples,
Ezekiel 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
In the tribulation, crops will become meager, and there will be rationing.
Revelation 6:5 ...And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The penny is not a small copper penny, but a denarius, a normal day's wages for a laboring man of John's day. There will be economic deprivation, as war will cripple healthy economies. It will be a very bad time, difficult to even take care of one's children,
Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
The "pale" of the pale horse is the Greek word "chloros", which is the eerie greenish-grey color of death.
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
This would mean, if there are 6 billion people on the earth, about 1 1/2 billion people dead. This is death resulting from the sins of the antichrist, which lead to war, which lead to famine, and, ultimately, death, a chain reaction: sin causes hatred, hatred causes war and bloodshed, war brings famine, famine produces death, and, after death, comes hell and the judgement. Often, the aftermath of war brings more death, by famine and disease, and we have biological warfare. Also, one of the most destructive creatures on earth is the rat, a menace to human health and food supplies, a nasty creature coming in over 100 species, producing five or more litters of 8-10 new rats per year, over one billion dollars in food lost in the U.S. due to rats per year, their fleas carrying bubonic plague, which destroyed 1/3 the population of Europe in the 14th century, and typhus killing an estimated 200 million people in four centuries, this disease also carried by rat fleas.
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
The rider on the white horse is the antichrist, who would imitate the Lord Jesus Christ, but is all about militancy. He is full of pomp and a warrior, set on conquest. "Anti" not only means against, but instead of. Antichrist is the devil's false messiah, the devil's counterfeit.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
The world will receive the antichrist as a hero, riding in on a white horse. The antichrist will be crafty, will have people believing he's brought world peace, and he will be revered by people.
Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
He's Satan's master man, all evil dictators, rolled up in one. The red horse is murderous conflicts, war, red the color of blood, and the real chaos ensues as a result of a spirit of hatred, which will have peoples killing each other. The evil of antichrist will result in evil in the world, as night follows day, hatred in men's depraved hearts.
Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Hatred will be unrestrained. The tribulation conflicts will not only be among nations, but within peoples,
Ezekiel 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
In the tribulation, crops will become meager, and there will be rationing.
Revelation 6:5 ...And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
The penny is not a small copper penny, but a denarius, a normal day's wages for a laboring man of John's day. There will be economic deprivation, as war will cripple healthy economies. It will be a very bad time, difficult to even take care of one's children,
Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
The "pale" of the pale horse is the Greek word "chloros", which is the eerie greenish-grey color of death.
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
This would mean, if there are 6 billion people on the earth, about 1 1/2 billion people dead. This is death resulting from the sins of the antichrist, which lead to war, which lead to famine, and, ultimately, death, a chain reaction: sin causes hatred, hatred causes war and bloodshed, war brings famine, famine produces death, and, after death, comes hell and the judgement. Often, the aftermath of war brings more death, by famine and disease, and we have biological warfare. Also, one of the most destructive creatures on earth is the rat, a menace to human health and food supplies, a nasty creature coming in over 100 species, producing five or more litters of 8-10 new rats per year, over one billion dollars in food lost in the U.S. due to rats per year, their fleas carrying bubonic plague, which destroyed 1/3 the population of Europe in the 14th century, and typhus killing an estimated 200 million people in four centuries, this disease also carried by rat fleas.
Arsenios
Well-known member
It has been working there for us for 2000 years...
Only, I suspect, in the Churches, in Islamic countries...
The church is persecuted and poor, like the one in Revelation...
We live in the ones we can find...
Sometimes underground...
It is our job to keep the Faith of Christ...
In the midst of persecutions...
And find the Peace of Christ...
Which surpasses all understanding...
Arsenios
Revelation 4:7New International Version (NIV)
7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.
each of the four horsemen were introduced by a living creature
lion = God
constantine the rider of the white horse with a bow, a covenant with God, makes world safe for christians
ox = beast
mohammed the rider of the red horse with a sword
christians are no longer safe
man = man
marx the rider of the black horse
religion is no longer safe
flying eagle = ?
death is the rider of the pale horse
no one is safe
7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.
each of the four horsemen were introduced by a living creature
lion = God
constantine the rider of the white horse with a bow, a covenant with God, makes world safe for christians
ox = beast
mohammed the rider of the red horse with a sword
christians are no longer safe
man = man
marx the rider of the black horse
religion is no longer safe
flying eagle = ?
death is the rider of the pale horse
no one is safe
Daniel 7: 4-7 and the description of the first beast of Revelation 13: 2, help in understanding the four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 1-7. The four horses and riders are a quartet, and all four fit some type or category. You can't mix the dispensationalist one man anti-Christ, with Constantine, and then famine and Marx. Following Daniel 7: 4-7 and Revelation 13: 2 the four riders and horses are world empires, or political ideologies, weltanschauungs, world views, epistemologies - like colonialism, capitalism, the world under usury banking, Marxism, fascism or some mix of these.
Isaiah 28: 10 tells us how to interpret scripture, especially metaphoric scripture like Revelation 6: 1-7 - "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little." Revelation 6: 1-7 cannot be understood by using one's own opinion. This is how we get a mix of Marx, Constantine, the anti-Christ, and who knows who or what else.
The four horses and riders appear in modern historical times - beginning at about the time of the rise of the British empire and diminishing of the power of the Spanish Catholic empire. This is an inference from the identity of the lion empire of Daniel 7: 4, which first had eagle's wings, but they were plucked off. The white horse is colonialism, and also at this time in England usury banking began on a large scale to exert an influence upon the world. But - Daniel 7:4 says this lion empire had a man's heart, which means it had some Christian morality.
The four horses are color coded and white for the British lion empire fits - white wigs, etc, In Daniel 7: 5 the next empire if that of the bear, or the Soviet Union, and the red horse can be said to be Marxism. The leopard empire coming next is the black horse of German fascism or the Nazis. And the fourth empire in Daniel 7:7 is a combination of the three previous world empires. And in Revelation 6:8 this is the pale horse, and Death rides this horse while Hell follows after.
In a sense, the fourth horse, a combination of the British, Russian Soviet Union and German fascism ideologies is thought to ride before and during the tribulation, though we do not know how long the tribulation period is to last or exactly how to know when it begins. We may now be in the early stages of it.
Isaiah 28: 10 tells us how to interpret scripture, especially metaphoric scripture like Revelation 6: 1-7 - "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little." Revelation 6: 1-7 cannot be understood by using one's own opinion. This is how we get a mix of Marx, Constantine, the anti-Christ, and who knows who or what else.
The four horses and riders appear in modern historical times - beginning at about the time of the rise of the British empire and diminishing of the power of the Spanish Catholic empire. This is an inference from the identity of the lion empire of Daniel 7: 4, which first had eagle's wings, but they were plucked off. The white horse is colonialism, and also at this time in England usury banking began on a large scale to exert an influence upon the world. But - Daniel 7:4 says this lion empire had a man's heart, which means it had some Christian morality.
The four horses are color coded and white for the British lion empire fits - white wigs, etc, In Daniel 7: 5 the next empire if that of the bear, or the Soviet Union, and the red horse can be said to be Marxism. The leopard empire coming next is the black horse of German fascism or the Nazis. And the fourth empire in Daniel 7:7 is a combination of the three previous world empires. And in Revelation 6:8 this is the pale horse, and Death rides this horse while Hell follows after.
In a sense, the fourth horse, a combination of the British, Russian Soviet Union and German fascism ideologies is thought to ride before and during the tribulation, though we do not know how long the tribulation period is to last or exactly how to know when it begins. We may now be in the early stages of it.
False Prophet
New member
[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6
The good guy is supposed to ride the white horse. That is why Jesus Christ is pictured on the white horse. Satan is cast out of heaven with his angelic host, and woe to those on the earth; because Satan comes down in great fury, knowing that his time is short.
The good guy is supposed to ride the white horse. That is why Jesus Christ is pictured on the white horse. Satan is cast out of heaven with his angelic host, and woe to those on the earth; because Satan comes down in great fury, knowing that his time is short.
white horse
constantine started the byzantine empire
a christian empire that lasted 1000 year
and it was
replaced by
the ottoman empire started by the rider of the red horse
replaced by
the russian empire started by the rider of the black horse
the two biggest threats to christianity are
islam
and
communism
constantine started the byzantine empire
a christian empire that lasted 1000 year
and it was
replaced by
the ottoman empire started by the rider of the red horse
replaced by
the russian empire started by the rider of the black horse
the two biggest threats to christianity are
islam
and
communism
Are the comments about the four horses and riders of Revelation 6 posted here coming from dispensationalist views? There are a few Reformed people on TOL, but maybe they have not posted here. To dispensationalists, there is no remnant. There is, in fact, no remnant of the Capital C Church. But there is a remnant, and its the remnant which is seen in Revelation 12: 17 - which "have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
do you see any mad people here?
they have put it all into the future
is that not your understanding?
The prophecy in Daniel 7: 4-7 and in Revelation 13: 2 is for the period of time after the Cross, and the lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 implies this time period begins with the rise of the British Empire after the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. The prophecy is for now and the immediate future.
With its literalist system of interpretation dispensationalism does not understand such a prophecy which began to be fulfilled after 1588 and is ongoing in 2015. Such a prophecy does not fit in with the dispensationist idea that end time prophecy begins to be fulfilled at the start of their tribulation and the appearance of their one man anti-Christ figure.
With its literalist system of interpretation dispensationalism does not understand such a prophecy which began to be fulfilled after 1588 and is ongoing in 2015. Such a prophecy does not fit in with the dispensationist idea that end time prophecy begins to be fulfilled at the start of their tribulation and the appearance of their one man anti-Christ figure.
when it comes to an antichrist
how do you top mohammed?
and
when it comes to a beast
how do you top islam?
in another thread
I show how the last two beasts of daniel
are
the two beasts of the apocalypse
I show how the last two beasts of daniel
are
the two beasts of the apocalypse
during the seventh century
many could see that they were looking at the fourth beast of daniel
it was different from all the former beasts
it is still with us today
many could see that they were looking at the fourth beast of daniel
it was different from all the former beasts
it is still with us today
Anto9us
New member
Out of five pages of posts -- it was good to see at least ONE that gave credit for the original 4 horses/riders to Zechariah
However -- that is THE PROPHET ZECHARIAH
centuries earlier than the Zechariah who was "father of John the Baptist"
NO SAME-SAME by a long sight...
...
And how do you know the "BOW" is either an archery bow or a rainbow?
Maybe it's a "fiddle bow" !!
which would make as much sense as anything posted in these 5 pages of threads.
However -- that is THE PROPHET ZECHARIAH
centuries earlier than the Zechariah who was "father of John the Baptist"
NO SAME-SAME by a long sight...
...
And how do you know the "BOW" is either an archery bow or a rainbow?
Maybe it's a "fiddle bow" !!
which would make as much sense as anything posted in these 5 pages of threads.
Genesis 9:13King James Version (KJV)
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Anto9us
New member
well, ya git down yer fiddle and ya git down yer bow
ya kick off yer shoes and ya thoe 'em on the flo
15 kids in the front porch light
Louisiana Saturday Night
"Zechariah Bible Quiz"
Zechariah -- in the Bible -- was
a. A Prophet from the 'return from exile' period
(whose original 4 horses/riders were only one color off from those in Revelation)
b. a priest who got murdered right at the altar
c. the father of John the Baptist - who got struck dumb fer a spell
d. all of the above
the correct answer is "d"
ya kick off yer shoes and ya thoe 'em on the flo
15 kids in the front porch light
Louisiana Saturday Night
"Zechariah Bible Quiz"
Zechariah -- in the Bible -- was
a. A Prophet from the 'return from exile' period
(whose original 4 horses/riders were only one color off from those in Revelation)
b. a priest who got murdered right at the altar
c. the father of John the Baptist - who got struck dumb fer a spell
d. all of the above
the correct answer is "d"
Anto9us
New member
As far as Daniel's 4 empires -- it is greatly disputed among Bible scholars if it should be:
1. Babylon
2. Medes
3. Persian
4. Greece under Alexander
-- or --
1. Babylon
2. "Medo-Persian Empire" - this is sticky - 2 horns but one beast
3. Greece under Alexander
4. Rome
It is also greatly disputed among Bible scholars whether "Daniel" was A REAL GUY AT ALL living in the exile -- most modern scholars think the whole work of Daniel was written during the Macabbean period -- centuries AFTER the events it describes, and was full of EX EVENTU prophecy
and that the writer knew nothing historically past Antiochus Epiphanes, one of the Seleucid Greeks
Daniel was one of the "Writings" in the Hebrew classification of scripture, was NOT part of "THE PROPHETS"
That Jesus alludes to "Daniel the Prophet" in Olivet Discourse might be taken to me referring to PAUL BUNYAN at a lumberjack contest I went to
"Yeah - the guy that won the wood-choppin contest was A REAL PAUL BUNYAN !!""
People would UNDERSTAND what I was conveying (the winning lumberjack was A BIG GUY)
but no one would assume that I was actually propounding belief in a giant lumberjack with a Big Blue Ox who was taller than 2 and a half men
"Daniel" was a character in a story -- more than likely based on a Ugaritic hero "Dan'el"
In Ezekiel, "Daniel" is listed alongside non-Jewish heroes of old like Noah and Job
If we are talking historical period of Babylonian exile -- "Daniel" would have been one of Ezekiel's CONTEMPORARIES !!
Not an "ancient worthy" like Job or Noah
1. Babylon
2. Medes
3. Persian
4. Greece under Alexander
-- or --
1. Babylon
2. "Medo-Persian Empire" - this is sticky - 2 horns but one beast
3. Greece under Alexander
4. Rome
It is also greatly disputed among Bible scholars whether "Daniel" was A REAL GUY AT ALL living in the exile -- most modern scholars think the whole work of Daniel was written during the Macabbean period -- centuries AFTER the events it describes, and was full of EX EVENTU prophecy
and that the writer knew nothing historically past Antiochus Epiphanes, one of the Seleucid Greeks
Daniel was one of the "Writings" in the Hebrew classification of scripture, was NOT part of "THE PROPHETS"
That Jesus alludes to "Daniel the Prophet" in Olivet Discourse might be taken to me referring to PAUL BUNYAN at a lumberjack contest I went to
"Yeah - the guy that won the wood-choppin contest was A REAL PAUL BUNYAN !!""
People would UNDERSTAND what I was conveying (the winning lumberjack was A BIG GUY)
but no one would assume that I was actually propounding belief in a giant lumberjack with a Big Blue Ox who was taller than 2 and a half men
"Daniel" was a character in a story -- more than likely based on a Ugaritic hero "Dan'el"
In Ezekiel, "Daniel" is listed alongside non-Jewish heroes of old like Noah and Job
If we are talking historical period of Babylonian exile -- "Daniel" would have been one of Ezekiel's CONTEMPORARIES !!
Not an "ancient worthy" like Job or Noah
CherubRam
New member
The "bow" is parabolic for action. The crown is a crown of life. That means the person is a Christian. A white horse is parabolic for victor. "Conquering, and to conquer" means the person has a mission and purpose.
Revelation 6:2
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Job 30:11
Now that God has unstrung my bow and afflicted me, they throw off restraint in my presence.
Psalm 7:12
If he does not relent, he will sharpen his sword; he will bend and string his bow.
Jeremiah 9:3
"They make ready their tongue like a bow, to shoot lies; it is not by truth that they triumph in the land.
Lamentations 2:4
Like an enemy he has strung his bow; his right hand is ready.
Habakkuk 3:9
You uncovered your bow, you called for many arrows.