darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of peace. Make sense?
The Creation of Evil
- Thread starter Richard Tanner
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darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of peace. Make sense?
Daniel1769
New member
Now that's what I'm talking about - a sound biblical response. So my next question to you [MENTION=5671]nikolai_42[/MENTION] would be: How is that I am guilty? How is it that I deserve no less than death when I (hypothetically)have been a good person? I do not murder or steal. What sin could be so terrible that thousands in Africa deserve Genocide? Do all the girls who have been raped deserve it? How crass can you be to suggest such a thing? (Playing Devils Advocate)I have an answer - I just want to know how others respond to these among others.
Is God raping and committing genocide or is it people doing it? These problems would be solved if people obeyed what God commanded. It's not God causing these things, but people that refuse to listen to him. This is usually not as hard for most people to accept as you would think. Most people believe in basic personal responsibility. We need to stop trying to justify why God allows these things, and focus on the fact that it's people that are causing them to happen.
Richard Tanner
New member
You are spot on. Mankind's denial of God based on the existence of evil (to me) is mankind trying to escape responsibility for their own actions. To deny God is to deny self, to deny responsibility. If you read other sources outside the Bible, I would recommend (if you have not already) Rouses Rushdooney's book "Revolt Against Maturity".
Daniel1769
New member
I'll add that to my long list of "To Read"s.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Now that's what I'm talking about - a sound biblical response. So my next question to you [MENTION=5671]nikolai_42[/MENTION] would be: How is that I am guilty? How is it that I deserve no less than death when I (hypothetically)have been a good person? I do not murder or steal. What sin could be so terrible that thousands in Africa deserve Genocide? Do all the girls who have been raped deserve it? How crass can you be to suggest such a thing? (Playing Devils Advocate)
There are so many things that flood the mind in response. But one thing that occurred to me recently is that the whole idea about deserving death (or maybe more the attitude of those who advance the "not fair" position) seems to be founded on the illusion of fairness rather than the question of deserving death. I say that because people don't typically raise the question "Why do people die?" but "Why do such awful things happen?". The reaction is normally against things that are notable for their ignomy. Ten out of ten people die. No one questions that. The revulsion, however, is with "untimely" deaths or possibly violent deaths - or maybe some indignity or unspeakable violation that doesn't result in death. People react far more aggressively against those things than they do death itself. But death is really the most successful enemy. So why isn't the real rage against death itself? I can't be certain, but I think it has to do with a perceived unfairness. If everyone (for example) died a violent death, I doubt there would be the same reaction. Or if people died much younger in life, the whole idea that a death was "untimely" would, I suspect, be far less prevalent. Why don't we see more books written from the 17th and 18th centuries (when infant mortality was high and life expectancy was lower) along the lines of "Why bad things happen to good people", yet such works are best sellers today? Not that there weren't those sentiments, but death was more a part of life then than it is now (speaking in general, broad, sweeping terms). We live much longer than our ancestors of 300 years ago did. We expect more. And I think it masks the fact that death is a part of life - because of Adam's fall. So to answer one part of your question, you are NOT a good person. Man looks on the outside, but God looks on the heart. That's what the rich young ruler found out. He had kept the commandments in an external way, but didn't realize that his heart was idolatrous. He didn't realize that he cared more for his riches than for God (even though he could say he had held to the external demands of the Law). That's why I referred to Jesus' teaching on lust/adultery and anger/murder. What we don't see is the connection between the heart and the final outworking of the sin. We call the murder and adultery itself wrong (which it is) but God is saying that there is something deeper such that lust and adultery are no different to Him and unjust anger and murder are as well. It's not so much that one LEADS to the other as one IS the other. It's the presence of sin that emerges as lust and adultery. It's the presence of sin that emerges as anger and murder. We are all very good at hiding the reality of what is in our heart - to the extent that we often hide it from ourselves. I here requote Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9
Sin is not often blatant - it is deceitful.
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:12-13
We are very good at justifying ourselves and yet finding fault with others because our own sin is the least obvious to us. And the enemy's whisper is almost imperceptible because it harmonizes well with the self-justifying, self-deceived heart that beats within our own breast. We are not naturally aligned with God, but with the Chief Rebel and so his suggestions easily find a place in us and before we know it, what started as a subtle suggestion has become an angry, viscious word or an unjust judgment or some riotous self-indulgence. That's because the heart is so inclined. And so the evil we see in the world does not start with God - but He most certainly (and without apology) uses it. He can remove restraint and even direct Satan to inflame some sinful inclination to the point of carnage. We charge everyone but ourselves with responsibility for that sin. Again...the sin we see that is so plain (and which people uncritically bemoan in others and not themselves) is part and parcel of the sin that is hidden. Both are a part of us and for God to force us to face the awfulness of that sin in some tragedy doesn't make it any worse than the unseen sin in the heart of someone who seems "good".
So it's not about whether victims of crime deserve it. That is a sin-inspired response to evil. It is attempting to justify self by only looking at half the picture. As soon as you say that a specific person deserves X, you become their judge. But by recognizing what the scripture tells us - that ALL have sin and fallen short of God's glory and that the wages of sin is death, you have a situation where ALL (including the one saying so) are so judged. And if the one saying so recognizes that and so judges himself, he can't be so judgmental as to say anyone else is deserving of a particular fate. To do so is to try to justify self.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 2:1
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
James 4:10-12
Also, we need to consider Jesus - who, though He was sinless, didn't try to defend Himself. How can we, as sinful, be so presumptious as to try to justify ourselves?
That may not convince the unbeliever, but I believe it is true.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Allow me also to point out two things :
1. The whole idea about not judging another has its utterance in the golden rule. If all are guilty and deserving of death (and live in a fallen world where evil is a reality and God determines what is manifested and what isn't) then if someone points the finger and says someone is deserving of something, then they are putting them in the position to be judged. We don't get what we deserve nearly all the time. The mercy of God is abundant and new every morning - so in making judgments like what someone deserves, we are only putting ourselves "out there" to be judged the same way (God forbid!).
2. The whole response was based on my first point in my initial response. That is the response that evil is a reality because man is sinful. That is really the only one people attach themselves on to because they try to justify themselves (my opinion, anyway). There are 2 other points that most people who address the problem of evil and good in the world fail to adequately wrestle with - suffering for reasons beyond mere judgment and suffering because of righteousness. That's because those that suffer for those reasons do not have a "beef" with God about suffering. They know that this is a part of life and that it is something that God employs for their good.
1. The whole idea about not judging another has its utterance in the golden rule. If all are guilty and deserving of death (and live in a fallen world where evil is a reality and God determines what is manifested and what isn't) then if someone points the finger and says someone is deserving of something, then they are putting them in the position to be judged. We don't get what we deserve nearly all the time. The mercy of God is abundant and new every morning - so in making judgments like what someone deserves, we are only putting ourselves "out there" to be judged the same way (God forbid!).
2. The whole response was based on my first point in my initial response. That is the response that evil is a reality because man is sinful. That is really the only one people attach themselves on to because they try to justify themselves (my opinion, anyway). There are 2 other points that most people who address the problem of evil and good in the world fail to adequately wrestle with - suffering for reasons beyond mere judgment and suffering because of righteousness. That's because those that suffer for those reasons do not have a "beef" with God about suffering. They know that this is a part of life and that it is something that God employs for their good.
ttruscott
Well-known member
By understanding that there is no moral quality to the words calamity and disaster like there is for the word evil. The word is wrongfully translated due to a faulty interpretation of GOD’s attributes.
GOD is light in whom is no darkness at all so no dark can come from HIM. A well of pure life giving water cannot give forth salt or swampish water and HE is the well of life, not death.