ECT The content of faith, required to be believed, in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr

[Jerry Shugart]

What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the death, burial, resurrection? The "gospel of God." To wit:

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16 KJV

You got that right!

The Jews were to believe in the Lord Jesus' "identity," and not His finished work at the Cross, as witnessed by His words here:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

 

[john w]

It is a perfectly silly post JohnW but at least you kept your manners civil.

Do you know what denial is? Denial is when you know something to be fact and want the opposite to be true.

I'm not sure we even need to bring that up. Every passage you wrote out is saying the opposite of what you claim: each one is saying he explained it. It was in riddle or parable or opaque before that, but it was there. So every account has it out in the open, but being raised in Judaism, they did not want it to happen.

This is merely part of a larger question which I always have trouble getting answers from the club on: what exactly was the friction with Judaism? You can go all the way through to the end of Acts and you will find that there is enough friction that it is a deal breaker, no matter if Paul makes that strategic show of obedience to the Law or not, in ch 22.

Do we consult Paul on this , or will you guys keep reading Chafer, Darby and Ryrie who thought that the Bible does not make sense until they arrived?

I don't stutter when I write. That must be a caricature in your head.

Sure, IP, keep spinning your made up jazz, as I gave you chapter and verse, in which to soak that Christ denying, bible rejecting, humanistic "brain" of yours, and what do we get from you? Opinions, about opinions, about opinions about opinions, speculation, musings, talk show jazz, not even addressing the specific passages, on which I/others, have brilliantly expounded, as your MO on this site, is no scripture, just, "Well, you see, I think, in my opinion, you see, well, uh, urr, the days of literalism are over, you see, well, uh, urr...."


You're not even in my league. My evidence? Your "posts."


Take your seat,as you embarrass yourself, when you take me on.

Let me guess your "response:" Focus on the friction, and fracturization.

Dig? Good.


Clown, in a parade of clowns....

 

[Danoh]

What was the content of faith required in Mt.-John, at least prior to the death, burial, resurrection? The "gospel of God." To wit:

"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God." Mt. 14:33KJV


"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Mt. 16:16 KJV

Comment: and with the 16:18 KJV "upon this rock" statement by the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour was setting the "foundation", i.e., the "rock", upon which the kingdom church, the "little flock" church(Luke 12:32 KJV )would be built upon-their faith would rest upon the foundation that He was " the Christ, the Son of the living God."



"And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ." Mark 8:29 KJV


"He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God." Luke 9:20 KJV

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Jn. 1:12 KJV



"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." Jn. 2:23 KJV


"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Jn. 3:18 KJV


"And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." John 4:42 KJV


"And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." Jn. 6:69 KJV


"She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world." John 11:27 KJV


"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:31 KJV

No change in the message in "early" Acts:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36 KJV


"And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16 KJV


"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:10 KJV


"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 KJV


"And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 4:42 KJV


"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:37 KJV

No change in the message by Paul, early in his ministry, before he was progressively/gradually(i.e., progressive revelation:Acts 9:9 KJV, Acts 9:16 KJV; Acts 22:10 KJV, Acts 22:16-17 KJV("trance"); Acts 26:16 KJV; 1 Cor. 11:23 KJV; 2 Cor. 12:1 KJV ; Gal. 2:2 KJV; Eph. 3:3 KJV; Col. 1:25 KJV; "But now"-Romans 16:26 KJV, Eph. 2:13 KJV, Col. 1:26 KJV / notice Paul spent 3 years in Arabia per Galatians 1:17-18 KJV! 3 years! I find this amazing! Could that be Mt. Sinai? ) given the revelation of the mystery, from the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from heaven(not earth),and the prophetic program was progressively/gradually(but temporarily) set aside:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God." Acts 9:20 KJV


"But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ." Acts 9:22 KJV

Notice the change in Acts 13:

Paul presents the "outline" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, the only gospel that will save in the current dispensation we are under :

Acts 13:28 KJV:"And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain." = the death of the Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 13:29 KJV: "And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre."=the burial of the Lord Jesus Christ

Acts 13:30 KJV: "But God raised him from the dead:..." =the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38-39 KJV

No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.

Nope.

For it is obvious that entire post is based on various inconsistencies in your approach.

One of which obviously is your having failed to note Luke's consistent habit of not always mentioning all that either the Apostles or that one Apostle: Paul, would preach.

Instead, he focuses on one aspect of their preaching in one of his depictions of their preaching, but then focuses on another aspect of their preaching in one of his other depictions of their preaching.

And they each also do that in their own writings.

Consistently.

As do the Prophets, in their writings also.

Which gave rise to the need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

And to laying it out, as you well know, in what ends up looking to the ignorant as some sort of a Darby invented patchwork of disparate ideas.

Anyway, it appears you have ended up at your own version of those accounts in Acts.

The same version those in agreement with you on that much and or inconsistencies like it, have also ended up at, due to their same mis-fire in consistency.

When Acts 9 is compared with Acts 15 and Galatians 1, one of several things that is obvious but is often missed, is that after Paul left for Tarsus in Acts 9, he ended up with a successful ministry among Gentiles prior to Acts both Acts 11 and Acts 13.

Gentiles it is also obvious at the end of Acts 14 (after his return from those areas and others) and in Acts 15, that he had taught his justification by grace through faith to, before he was later merely publicly separated before all in Acts 13, unto this work he had already been at work in.

Might as well conclude each time he asserts elsewhere that he has been "separated" that that means he has been separated right then and there also.

Further, per Acts 7; Romans 2 and 3; 1 Timothy 1, etc., Paul himself was saved only after he and his nation had been concluded Uncircumcision, or no different, or under sin with the Gentiles.

None of them were saveable after Acts 7 - but for this "all under sin" or "heathen" "mercy upon all" without distinction.

He was saved by the same gospel of the Uncircumcision he was then commissioned with, in between Acts 9: 19 A and Acts 9: 19 B, which is what his Galatians 1 account of his time in Arabia and return to Damascus is describing.

Again, Luke does not always fill in all the details in one spot.

Other times, he does not report on them at all.

But there they nevertheless are, within Luke's and Peter's and Paul's narrative, overall.

Rom. 14: 5, JohnW - in memory of Rom. 5: 6- 8 - in each our stead.

 

[john w]

Nope.

For it is obvious that entire post is based on various inconsistencies in your approach.

One of which obviously is your having failed to note Luke's consistent habit of not always mentioning all that either the Apostles or that one Apostle: Paul, would preach.

Instead, he focuses on one aspect of their preaching in one of his depictions of their preaching, but then focuses on another aspect of their preaching in one of his other depictions of their preaching.

And they each also do that in their own writings.

Consistently.

As do the Prophets, in their writings also.

Which gave rise to the need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

And to laying it out, as you well know, in what ends up looking to the ignorant as some sort of a Darby invented patchwork of disparate ideas.

Anyway, it appears you have ended up at your own version of those accounts in Acts.

The same version those in agreement with you on that much and or inconsistencies like it, have also ended up at, due to their same mis-fire in consistency.

When Acts 9 is compared with Acts 15 and Galatians 1, one of several things that is obvious but is often missed, is that after Paul left for Tarsus in Acts 9, he ended up with a successful ministry among Gentiles prior to Acts both Acts 11 and Acts 13.

Gentiles it is also obvious at the end of Acts 14 (after his return from those areas and others) and in Acts 15, that he had taught his justification by grace through faith to, before he was later merely publicly separated before all in Acts 13, unto this work he had already been at work in.

Might as well conclude each time he asserts elsewhere that he has been "separated" that that means he has been separated right then and there also.

Further, per Acts 7; Romans 2 and 3; 1 Timothy 1, etc., Paul himself was saved only after he and his nation had been concluded Uncircumcision, or no different, or under sin with the Gentiles.

None of them were saveable after Acts 7 - but for this "all under sin" or "heathen" "mercy upon all" without distinction.

He was saved by the same gospel of the Uncircumcision he was then commissioned with, in between Acts 9: 19 A and Acts 9: 19 B, which is what his Galatians 1 account of his time in Arabia and return to Damascus is describing.

Again, Luke does not always fill in all the details in one spot.

Other times, he does not report on them at all.

But there they nevertheless are, within Luke's and Peter's and Paul's narrative, overall.

Rom. 14: 5, JohnW - in memory of Rom. 5: 6- 8 - in each our stead.

Nope-made up. You missed it, as usual, and just spammed your opinion,as you love "hearing yourself." The content of faith, prior to the occurrence of the dbr, according to prophecy, excluded the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-the dbr. You were given chapter, verse, in which to soak your condescending brain.


No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.


Show us, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."


You won't, and cannot.

For it is obvious that entire post is based on various inconsistencies in your approach.

1. Whenever one uses the term "obvious," it is a clue that they have NADA, but opinion, and it is not obvious. Every chairman of the Federal Reserve has used/uses this ploy.


2. You spam that word-for-word copy'npaste to everyone, with whom you disagree. Most of the TOL audience sees right through you, and you are beginning to bore us.

 

[Danoh]

Nope-made up. You missed it, as usual, and just spammed your opinion,as you love "hearing yourself." The content of faith, prior to the occurrence of the dbr, according to prophecy, excluded the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-the dbr. You were given chapter, verse, in which to soak your condescending brain.


No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.


Show us, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."


You won't, and cannot.




1. Whenever one uses the term "obvious," it is a clue that they have NADA, but opinion, and it is not obvious. Every chairman of the Federal Reserve has used/uses this ploy.


2. You spam that word-for-word copy'npaste to everyone, with whom you disagree. Most of the TOL audience sees right through you, and you are beginning to bore us.

What a cop out as some sort of a would be defense of your full of holes Acts 13 view.

I knew even as I wrote it that you would not take it well no matter how careful I was about your thin skin.

Whoa is me. I've committed treason; I've not only not agreed with JohnW, but addressed him about it.

Spit away, W.

You're still...wrong.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[john w]

What a cop out as some sort of a would be defense of your full of holes Acts 13 view.

I knew even as I wrote it that you would not take it well no matter how careful I was about your thin skin.

Whoa is me. I've committed treason; I've not only not agreed with JohnW, but addressed him about it.

Spit away, W.

You're still...wrong.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5: 6-8.

Thin skin, eh tough guy? Like your whining brat act on TOL, always thinking others are trying to gyp you out of your HoHo's? Yes.

As I predicted:

You won't, and cannot.


Slower:The content of faith, prior to the occurrence of the dbr, according to prophecy, excluded the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-the dbr. You were given chapter, verse, in which to soak your condescending brain.


No one preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the dbr, as a basis for justification-no scripture states this.


Come on, blowhard-SHOW US, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas, ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."


You won't, and cannot.

 

[john w]

but addressed him about it.

No, you did not-you said nothing, you ignorant, blowhard.

Spit away, W.

I spit you out, as you've devolved into a whining man pleaser, in recent days, kissing a-- of others on TOL, trying to be their "friends." Typical, of one, who has family problems, or something. How did I do?

You're still...wrong.

That's your best volley, another assert/pound the podium/declare "victory," return to your "Your approach is inconsistent" echo chamber, which you spam on every thread? Weighty.

Come on, blowhard-SHOW US, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."=the 1 cor. 15:1-4 kjv foundation, the content of faith being...

The Death
The Burial
The Resurrection


We will wait....for an eternity....You won't, and cannot.


Fold. You have "deuce/seven unsuited" in Texas Hold(Fold)'Em.

 

[Interplanner]

You got that right!

The Jews were to believe in the Lord Jesus' "identity," and not His finished work at the Cross, as witnessed by His words here:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

Nonsense, people die in their sins because there is nothing to justify them from them. God does not have two ways of doing. His name was Yeshua (Joshua) because he would save from their sins. Crystal clear JohnW is a crystal clear fraud, like the rest of D'ism. So much for being crystal clear!

He was obedient to John's baptism because it was necessary to fulfill all righteousness--a righteousness that would be credited to others who believed. Mt 3:16.

 

[Danoh]

No, you did not-you said nothing, you ignorant, blowhard.


I spit you out, as you've devolved into a whining man pleaser, in recent days, kissing a-- of others on TOL, trying to be their "friends." Typical, of one, who has family problems, or something. How did I do?




That's your best volley, another assert/pound the podium/declare "victory," return to your "Your approach is inconsistent" echo chamber, which you spam on every thread? Weighty.

Come on, blowhard-SHOW US, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."=the 1 cor. 15:1-4 kjv foundation, the content of faith being...

The Death
The Burial
The Resurrection


We will wait....for an eternity....You won't, and cannot.


Fold. You have "deuce/seven unsuited" in Texas Hold(Fold)'Em.

Quit with your self-portrait, John - stick to the issues - address the passages I posted.

You and various of your pals always pull this with people.

People post a host of passages they base their views on.

Instead of addressing that alone, you start up with the grace-less "grace" most of you have come to be infamously known for.

And you are the worst of the bunch, John.

Are you really that profoundly insecure?

Obviously you are, and all your attempts to cover it up with more of the same is a denial of the finished work of the Cross.

You each then swear up and down no one ever posted their view and or the passages they based their view on.

Bad enough how often you and various of your pals mis-read into other's words.

Stick to the issues.

You and various of your pals will each prove your actual compentence or not, only when you stick the issues, that your soundness or not stand on its own.

Bad enough even further, that this place is not the level playing field some delude themselves into attempting to assert it is to others.

Geez, how many people do you and various of your pals have to drive away, before you finally see what a sham each your so called ministry actually is?

Stick to the issues, bully.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Crystal clear JohnW is a crystal clear fraud,

The irony...

 

[Tambora]

grace-less "grace"

Made up.
No such thing.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When Acts 9 is compared with Acts 15 and Galatians 1, one of several things that is obvious but is often missed, is that after Paul left for Tarsus in Acts 9, he ended up with a successful ministry among Gentiles prior to Acts both Acts 11 and Acts 13.

You keep repeating the same nonsense and when you are asked to give the Scriptures which support your false ideas you come up empty.

You say that it is "obvious" and if it is indeed obvious then you should be able to prove it by quoting the Scriptures.

It's time to put up or shut up!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nonsense, people die in their sins because there is nothing to justify them from them.

In case you didn't notice the subject is what was needed to be believed prior to the time when Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles. And the following verse gives the answer:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

Those who believed that truth were born of God as soon as they believed it (1 Jn.5:1-5).

 

[john w]

Quit with your self-portrait, John - stick to the issues - address the passages I posted.

You and various of your pals always pull this with people.

People post a host of passages they base their views on.

Instead of addressing that alone, you start up with the grace-less "grace" most of you have come to be infamously known for.

And you are the worst of the bunch, John.

Are you really that profoundly insecure?

Obviously you are, and all your attempts to cover it up with more of the same is a denial of the finished work of the Cross.

You each then swear up and down no one ever posted their view and or the passages they based their view on.

Bad enough how often you and various of your pals mis-read into other's words.

Stick to the issues.

You and various of your pals will each prove your actual compentence or not, only when you stick the issues, that your soundness or not stand on its own.

Bad enough even further, that this place is not the level playing field some delude themselves into attempting to assert it is to others.

Geez, how many people do you and various of your pals have to drive away, before you finally see what a sham each your so called ministry actually is?

Stick to the issues, bully.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

Quit with your self-portrait, John - stick to the issues - address the passages I posted.

You and various of your pals always pull this with people.

People post a host of passages they base their views on.

I stay on topic/the issues...You're not paying attention to their/your "argument,"i.e., one piece of good news/one gospel in the book. Come on, blowhard-SHOW US, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."=the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV foundation, the content of faith being...

The Death
The Burial
The Resurrection

Not a peep.

 

[Interplanner]

In case you didn't notice the subject is what was needed to be believed prior to the time when Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles. And the following verse gives the answer:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

Those who believed that truth were born of God as soon as they believed it (1 Jn.5:1-5).

I did notice and no, there aren't 2 Christs, or 2 messages. He was the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world.

The way you are reading the text is blockhead. All of them have to be considered. The promise had arrived which was forgiveness of sins, Lk 2. He was called Yeshua because he saved people from their sins. 'See! The Lamb of God.' What do you do with lambs, huh?

 

[Interplanner]

I stay on topic/the issues...You're not paying attention to their/your "argument,"i.e., one piece of good news/one gospel in the book. Come on, blowhard-SHOW US, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."=the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV foundation, the content of faith being...

The Death
The Burial
The Resurrection

Not a peep.

Just because they were in denial of it didn't mean it wasn't explained! It's very simple. They regressed and the only way they could have regressed was if it was already explained.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Just because they were in denial of it didn't mean it wasn't explained! It's very simple. They regressed and the only way they could have regressed was if it was already explained.

:chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

I stay on topic/the issues...You're not paying attention to their/your "argument,"i.e., one piece of good news/one gospel in the book. Come on, blowhard-SHOW US, in Mt.-John, chapter, verse, where Peter, and the 11, which included Judas ever preached, prior to the dbr, while preaching for almost 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, .....

"Christ is going to die for our sins...Be buried...Be raised for our/your justification. Believe this good news to be saved."=the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV foundation, the content of faith being...

The Death
The Burial
The Resurrection

Not a peep.

Further on DBR and much to the pain of our D'ist friends:

'Destroy this temple and I will raise it up in 3 days.' The real dagger for D'ism here is that Christ is already calling himself the temple, which Rev 21 confirms. It is everywhere in the world. Jn 2. Lots of peeps.

 

[Interplanner]

:chuckle:

You need to know more about human nature and human nature in mystery stories/films. The whole craft is who knew what and when? Then it becomes a matter of tracking down denial. It's the whole fabric of one I'm watching now on the overthrow of Berlin (the coup or 'putsch') from the inside, called operation Prangertag, in 1928, by the leaders of the 3rd Reich.

The proto-Nazis are the most intriguing because you know they know what they are going to do but they are full of DENIAL, but people on stage don't know that they know.

Otherwise, there is hardly a story.

 

[Interplanner]

The cartoons or icons or emojis are extremely destructive for you STP because you can shut off your brain and click on one of them, and think you are thinking.