The 50th. anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I have a dream..."

[annabenedetti]

I mostly like what Obama said there. As you say, there is balance. It is good to understand from where blacks view things. I think a problem is that mostly people are only hearing the "trayvon could have been my son" part. That's the sound bite.

I'm glad you see there's balance, and in turn I agree with the sound bite. That's always going to be an issue, that sound bite.

And that paints a different picture. And it's still true that Obama and Holder and many others are painting Trayvon's picture as a perfect, unarmed angel that got gunned down. That doesn't help the conversation and it isn't balance.

I don't know that Obama has done that, painted him as a perfect, unarmed angel. I'm not familiar with what Holder said that would do the same.

Here is some text from another Obama speech. It was a commencement address. Obama's Morehouse College speech

I think I wish Obama would say more things like that (maybe he has). I am in partial agreement with 99lamb about the culture problem. In the thread about the Oklahoma/Lane murder I posted an article that says the race industry doesn't want to talk about the thug culture and its negative consequences. Here is a quote from it:

Thanks, I hadn't seen that, that's very good.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/arnold-ahlert/the-thug-culture-that-killed-chris-lane/

I want to be fair to Obama but part of being President is using it as a pulpit. Obama would have a lot of currency with the black community and I feel like the "Trayvon could have been my son" stuff is getting a lot more run than what you provided and what was in the commencement address.

:idunno:

I read it, thanks and I agree with much of it. As for the President using his office as a pulpit, that's the very thing 99lamb didn't like.

I do think Obama gained currency with the black community with his remarks, I just don't know how widely they were heard, whether they were heard by those who would best benefit by them. The broken family situations are a huge problem, I know that from my own personal work experience at the elementary school level, but how much is cause, and how much is effect?

 

[annabenedetti]

Yes, there have been strong reactions on both sides, though I'm not sure if it simply exposed an existing polarization or if it actually moved the sides. You believe that this case shows we have a long way to go. Can you be more specific?

Specifically, I think for many people there's a thin veneer that covers an underlying bigotry and when something like the Zimmerman case comes along it can rip a tear in that veneer to a greater or a lesser extent. There's a great quote from Karl Stern, author of Pillar of Fire (excellent book) where he says "The veil that separates the potential evil in you from the manifest evil of the man about whom you are going read in tomorrow's headlines is thinner and more mysterious than you think..."

So I think on the surface things look okay, not too bad, maybe - until something like this comes along and it's a lot harder for people to a.) keep their prejudice under control, b.) stand up to people who are exposing or even flaunting their bigotry. Look what's happened right here at TOL, it's a microcosm.

In real life I was talking today with a friend about this very subject. I spoke of prejudice I'd seen expressed in my own extended family by relatives who came from a city in the midwest where this sort of attitude was pretty well established. Growing up, as a pre-teen, I didn't see the jokes for what they were, I didn't realize until I was an adult and looked back and realized with a great deal of shame that they were jokes which never should have been told and they expressed a deep-seated, generational and regional prejudice that would never be considered acceptable today (although it certainly still exists). I have a relative who lives in an area where she says if you're black it's understood that if you pass through this town or that, you'd best not stop, just keep right on driving. Now I understand that someone will come along and say that you'd say the same thing to a white person passing through certain inner city black neighborhoods, and I get that. It's part of the whole picture, the whole problem that's not solved, that's still so very complicated.

Anyway, my friend said similar... she in turn had a relative who, when a couple of black kids were getting beaten up by a group of white kids at a park was told to "turn around, don't look. Don't watch, it's best that way." Well, a whole lot of years after emancipation, a whole lot of years after the Civil Rights movement, a whole lot of years of looking the other way, sooner or later you realize that we, as a country, have a history that's not pretty. With regard to slavery, to Native Americans, to Japanese Americans interned during WWII. You can visit one of those internment camps in California. Three years they were there... they could only take what they could carry, their businesses were sold out from under them, they were put behind barbed wire... because of their Japanese ancestry.

Anyway. That's a little of what I'm thinking about, hope it helps.

Also, just a quick thought that is more on topic with this thread...

Last year, or a couple years ago, my pastor played MLK's dream speech at church and it was the first time I had seen the entire thing. It was quite moving.

That's great. TM mentioned at the beginning of the thread that she'd not read it before, so I was glad she had that opportunity here.

 

[illusionray]

Specifically, I think for many people there's a thin veneer that covers an underlying bigotry and when something like the Zimmerman case comes along it can rip a tear in that veneer to a greater or a lesser extent. There's a great quote from Karl Stern, author of Pillar of Fire (excellent book) where he says "The veil that separates the potential evil in you from the manifest evil of the man about whom you are going read in tomorrow's headlines is thinner and more mysterious than you think..."

So I think on the surface things look okay, not too bad, maybe - until something like this comes along and it's a lot harder for people to a.) keep their prejudice under control, b.) stand up to people who are exposing or even flaunting their bigotry. Look what's happened right here at TOL, it's a microcosm.

In real life I was talking today with a friend about this very subject. I spoke of prejudice I'd seen expressed in my own extended family by relatives who came from a city in the midwest where this sort of attitude was pretty well established. Growing up, as a pre-teen, I didn't see the jokes for what they were, I didn't realize until I was an adult and looked back and realized with a great deal of shame that they were jokes which never should have been told and they expressed a deep-seated, generational and regional prejudice that would never be considered acceptable today (although it certainly still exists). I have a relative who lives in an area where she says if you're black it's understood that if you pass through this town or that, you'd best not stop, just keep right on driving. Now I understand that someone will come along and say that you'd say the same thing to a white person passing through certain inner city black neighborhoods, and I get that. It's part of the whole picture, the whole problem that's not solved, that's still so very complicated.

Anyway, my friend said similar... she in turn had a relative who, when a couple of black kids was getting beaten up by a group of white kids at a park was told to "turn around, don't look. Don't watch, it's best that way." Well, a whole lot of years after emancipation, a whole lot of years after the Civil Rights movement, a whole lot of years of looking the other way, sooner or later you realize that we, as a country, have a history that's not pretty. Not with regard to slavery, not with regard to Native Americans, not with regard to Japanese Americans interned during WWII. You can visit one of those internment camps in California. Three years they were there... they could only take what they could carry, their businesses were sold out from under them, they were put behind barbed wire... because of their Japanese ancestry.

Anyway. That's a little of what I'm thinking about, hope it helps.

There's something rotten to the core in that country.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Reminder: Alveda King Says Her Uncle Would be Pro-Life

Cortney O'Brien | Aug 28, 2013

Read the article here: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortne...king-says-her-uncle-would-be-prolife-n1680102

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

"Somewhere somebody must have some sense. Men must see that force begets force, hate begets hate, toughness begets toughness. And it is all a descending spiral, ultimately ending in destruction for all and everybody. Somebody must have sense enough and morality enough to cut off the chain of hate and the chain of evil in the universe. And you do that by love."

Martin Luther King Jr. - "Loving Your Enemies," November 1957

 

[PureX]

There's a great quote from Karl Stern, author of Pillar of Fire (excellent book) where he says "The veil that separates the potential evil in you from the manifest evil of the man about whom you are going read in tomorrow's headlines is thinner and more mysterious than you think..."

Ah, that's part of that "we" you hate so much that he's talking about! (I agree about the book, by the way, it's very good.)

Well, a whole lot of years after emancipation, a whole lot of years after the Civil Rights movement, a whole lot of years of looking the other way, sooner or later you realize that we, as a country, have a history that's not pretty. Not with regard to slavery, not with regard to Native Americans, not with regard to Japanese Americans interned during WWII. You can visit one of those internment camps in California. Three years they were there... they could only take what they could carry, their businesses were sold out from under them, they were put behind barbed wire... because of their Japanese ancestry.

Hindsight makes it a lot easier and more palatable to see this. But the real question is who is being scape-goated and abused, today? And who is doing it? And who is looking the other way? Those are a lot tougher questions to answer, because those answers may well include us.

 

[annabenedetti]

Ah, that's part of that "we" you hate so much that he's talking about!

No it isn't! It's talking about each individual being just a gossamer veil separated from committing an evil he doesn't consider himself possible of committing.

(I agree about the book, by the way, it's very good.)

Hey, that's great. It's rather obscure, I didn't expect that.


I really messed up that section you quoted. I think I edited without running it through all the way. It should read:

Well, a whole lot of years after emancipation, a whole lot of years after the Civil Rights movement, a whole lot of years of looking the other way, sooner or later you realize that we, as a country, have a history that's not pretty. With regard to slavery, to Native Americans, to Japanese Americans interned during WWII. You can visit one of those internment camps in California. Three years they were there... they could only take what they could carry, their businesses were sold out from under them, they were put behind barbed wire... because of their Japanese ancestry.

Hindsight makes it a lot easier and more palatable to see this. But the real question is who is being scape-goated and abused, today? And who is doing it? And who is looking the other way? Those are a lot tougher questions to answer, because those answers may well include us.

Of course hindsight makes things easier to see and I hope people are thinking about how things are today.

 

[annabenedetti]

Reminder: Alveda King Says Her Uncle Would be Pro-Life

Cortney O'Brien | Aug 28, 2013

Read the article here: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortne...king-says-her-uncle-would-be-prolife-n1680102

From your link:

Some pro-choice advocates like to point out MLK, Jr. supported Planned Parenthood and that the abortion-providing organization awarded him the Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger award in 1966. But, as his niece points out, this was at a time when Planned Parenthood was still anti-abortion. She explains on PriestsforLife.org, Dr. King, a man of love, peace, non-violence and strong Christian faith would be assassinated before the truth of the Planned Parenthood map for genocide would be made public after the passage of Roe vs Wade. The abortion agenda is in direct conflict with the teachings of Dr. King. ​

​

Thanks, SObG.

 

[meshak]

There's something rotten to the core in that country.

It is because they have too many fake Christians. OT is no exception.

 

[PureX]

No it isn't! It's talking about each individual being just a gossamer veil separated from committing an evil he doesn't consider himself possible of committing.

Exactly. We all think it's only the other guys who are 'evil'. But it's in all of us. That's why I say "we" when I refer to such goings on. I don't know who is actually doing it, but someone is, and I know that we are all capable of it.

Hey, that's great. It's rather obscure, I didn't expect that.

Actually, now that you've named it again, I realize that I'd confused it with a book called, "Pillars of the Earth". Sorry.

Of course hindsight makes things easier to see and I hope people are thinking about how things are today.

Me too. I don't like directly accusing people of things, because I can't see into anyone's heart, to know their sins. But I do know that a lot of evil is being done in this world, and a lot of people are doing it. And I really hope we would each ask ourselves, often, if it's WE who are contributing to it, and how. Because the truth is, we most likely are contributing to it in some way. And it's the evil that we contribute that we have the power to stop.

I think a lot of folks in general, and a lot of folks here on TOL, are very good at seeing and pointing out the evil of others, while they never look for the evil in themselves. And not only do they not look for it, but they defend themselves in advance of looking to make sure that they'll never see it.

And that's why I tend to write as though we're all guilty.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Reminder: Alveda King Says Her Uncle Would be Pro-Life

Coretta Scott King worked side by side with her husband for decades and knew her husband much better than his niece did.

Mrs. King was on the Board of Directors of the pro abortion/radical feminist organization "NOW" and obviously shared the views of her sick and twisted husband.

"...Scott King was also an advocate of women's rights and was a former member of the National Board of Directors of NOW. She campaigned for the Equal Rights Amendment, advocated for gay and lesbian rights, and led opposition to the death penalty and the war."
http://www.now.org/history/corettascottking.html

I must say that I do enjoy watching this tug of war between liberals and (pseudo) conservatives:

"Martin Luther King Jr. was a republican!"

"No, he was a democrat!"

The bottom line is that Martin Luther King Jr. was a very evil man.

 

[meshak]

The bottom line is that Martin Luther King Jr. was a very evil man.

If he was not a Christian, he was just average and normal non-believer. Non-believing world don't have high moral standards.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

“If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven played music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well.”

Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968);

 

[meshak]

“If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven played music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well.”

Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968);

It could be meaningful if he did not have such low moral standards.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

It could be meaningful if he did not have such low moral standards.

If you are perfect, go ahead and cast the first stone.

 

[PureX]

If he was not a Christian, he was just average and normal non-believer. Non-believing world don't have high moral standards.

I've never seen any evidence that would suggest that believers of religion are any more or less moral than anyone else. I certainly don't see it here on TOL.

 

[The Berean]

I've never seen any evidence that would suggest that believers of religion are any more or less moral than anyone else. I certainly don't see it here on TOL.

How can you know this? Do you know any TOLer in real life? Besides, meshak doesn't care. He/she just wants to disparage those "evil trinitarians". It's his/her Boogie Man™.

 

[99lamb]

The President's used of the Bully Pulpit to pander. Here is a better use of the Bully Pulpit

'They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk...


Why you ain't

Where you is

What he drive

Where he stay

Where he work

Who you be...

And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. ;< /SPAN>

And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

In fact, you will never get any kind of job making a decent living. People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what??

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

Where were you when he was 2??

Where were you when he was 12??

Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol??

And where is the father?? Or, who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward, isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?

People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Or, are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from??

We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don't know a thing about Africa .
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.

We have got to take the neighborhood back.

People used to be ashamed. Today, a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs.

We, as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal- Mart with seven kids... you are hurting us.

We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.

- Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.

It's NOT about color...
It's about behavior !!!
http://rense.com/general82/ana.htm

But this speech would be deemed insensitive, wouldn't it.

 

[PureX]

How can you know this? Do you know any TOLer in real life? Besides, meshak doesn't care. He/she just wants to disparage those "evil trinitarians". It's his/her Boogie Man™.

All I know is what I see on the screen. And on the screen, I see little evidence that would suggest that believing in religion makes anyone morally superior to anyone else.

 

[meshak]

I've never seen any evidence that would suggest that believers of religion are any more or less moral than anyone else. I certainly don't see it here on TOL.

Nope, Jesus teachings are not honored by most of His followers. But His teachings are the most noble teachings. That's why main streamers wash down to their level by changing what He teaches and commands.

You will find out if you read the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.