Summit Clock Experiment 2.0: Time is Absolute

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Inertia does not change per size.
Are you sure about this statement? As far as I understand, inertia depends upon an objects mass except in very extreme gravitational situations, ie none or lots.

Durn it was a download. Jamming up my card.
:devil:

Well anyway will noodle on it.
:up:

But since you assert that gravity is affecting the atomic clocks and not passage of time. You do know how an atomic clock functions, right?
It measures the number of times atoms osscilate. A feature closely linked to how light works.

If the speed of light were degrading, the ossilation of atoms might also be affected by the same process thus masking the trend for those who believe lightspeed cannot change.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
If you don't mind me asking: What the heck is that image you have as an avatar? :AMR:

:)
 

gcthomas

New member
Did you read my link?

Your link is to a crank, not a physicist. His objections to Einstein's paper is based on a misconception.

Einstein wrote: For a ray of light emitted at the time tau = 0 in the direction of the increasing epsilon ...

... but goes on to show that for an 'arbitrary' path of light the derivations don't work.

He is equally mistaken on any number of enormous self promoting claims on his site.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Even if God is "outside" of time, the concept has no meaning for people and He presents Himself to us within a rational, time-based relationship.

Your invitation to "mull it over" has been accepted. I mulled this over coming from a position of believing as you believe and found there to be no reason to stick to that way of thinking and no barrier to the notion that God can be not "outside" of time.

The term has no rational use.
Again, time is a 'physical' constrict/construct. For instance, time has no bearing at all upon my dreams, not an iota, because they are not physically constrained. There is no such constriction. If it is possible that time cannot apply to me while-dreaming (I recognize my body is someplace that it is constricted by, but my mind is completely elsewhere), then: If I can in any shape or fashion escape it's confinement, then God certainly, being infinite, has unequivocally and logically absolutely (absolute) no confinement issues and cannot.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Again, time is a 'physical' constrict/construct.
Great. Please gift wrap four hours for me. :up:

For instance, time has no bearing at all upon my dreams, not an iota, because they are not physically constrained.
:AMR:

If it is possible that time cannot apply to me while-dreaming (I recognize my body is someplace that it is constricted by, but my mind is completely elsewhere), then: If I can in any shape or fashion escape it's confinement, then God certainly, being infinite, has unequivocally and logically absolutely (absolute) no confinement issues and cannot.
Is this is your argument or a fourth Matrix installment?
 

Lon

Well-known member
Great. Please gift wrap four hours for me. :up:
I can give you a tape measure, I can't "give you six feet." Similarly, I can give you a watch. Because we are physical, you can find meaning in the physical universe by a tape measure or a watch. These instruments have random assignments that only are meaningful because we all decided to 'give' them meaning. Without us, 6 foot makes not an ounce of difference to the universe. Without us all agreeing with a watch, a minute makes absolutely no dent in the universe.
What? Do you really think when I'm dreaming of hours that hours are actually taking place? When I dream of the future or past, that it is impossible and I can't really do it? How does time apply to any dream?
I say it does not and cannot. The 'concept' can be dreamed of and our minds think that way through indoctrination of hours but we all jump through time when dreaming. All of us.
Is this is your argument or a fourth Matrix installment?
That's your Open Theism talking again and very little else. Why? Why are you so committed to a theological stance that you won't listen to basic things? God has no beginning. Guess what? If you have no beginning, there is no time, period. Do you even understand that? Time is a measurement just like a degree is a measurement in C and F, just like a foot is a measurement. What do they all have in common? Yep, all man-made. Now what do they measure? Only what we can physically measure, every single one of them! Time is simply the 'passage' of physical things from one state of being to another. No change = no measurable time. A statue that doesn't change an iota in an hour has no need for the measurement called time because time ONLY measures change. Time is meaningless to unchanging. Even by OV standards, there are things about God that never ever, ever change. You need only carry the logic that every logical precept, and your bible sets: God is relational to time but there are aspects of Him that time (a measurement concept) cannot (impossible) touch.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I can give you a tape measure, I can't "give you six feet." Similarly, I can give you a watch. Because we are physical, you can find meaning in the physical universe by a tape measure or a watch. These instruments have random assignments that only are meaningful because we all decided to 'give' them meaning. Without us, 6 foot makes not an ounce of difference to the universe. Without us all agreeing with a watch, a minute makes absolutely no dent in the universe.
So did you misspeak when you said time was physical?

What? Do you really think when I'm dreaming of hours that hours are actually taking place? When I dream of the future or past, that it is impossible and I can't really do it? How does time apply to any dream? I say it does not and cannot. The 'concept' can be dreamed of and our minds think that way through indoctrination of hours but we all jump through time when dreaming. All of us.
I have no idea what you are talking about. :idunno:

That's your Open Theism talking again and very little else.
:AMR:

God has no beginning. Guess what? If you have no beginning, there is no time, period.
Why not? :idunno:
 

TimLutz

New member
Again will noodle the anti thesis. And have two relatives that worked in that area. But as in theology. We can say whatever we want about a subject. It is having solid foundational backing. With multiple scripture verses, allowing for time/culture/ translational, transpositions. And with physics, math and actual experimental testing. So has there bee any proofs worked out proving time constant and not affected by gravity ect. Or is a glib response of 1=1 all that is ever gonna be offered?
Also side note interest.
Now we have the ability to write info on an atom. And thru red shift measurements. A n
Nobel prize winning discovery that galaxies are actually speeding up. No explanation yet. And no refiguring of time lines to account for it either. Remember what Truman said. Only news is history we do not know yet.

Posted from the TOL App!
 

TimLutz

New member
Oh if it is my avatar you ask about. I carve northern pike spearing decoys. It is a play of image and reality. Then the cross shadow. Knife and cut resistant glove also.
Aside question.
Do you believe God controls time?

Posted from the TOL App!
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Has there bee any proofs worked out proving time constant and not affected by gravity ect. Or is a glib response of 1=1 all that is ever gonna be offered?
The statements: "Lightspeed is a constant" and "Time is not a physical entity that can be manipulated" are assertions that can only be falsified. The mathematical formula associated with the former has been showed as flawed (see the link). The mathematical formula associated with the latter would be extremely similar to that for the former -- close enough such that the disagreement between us is largely semantic.

Oh if it is my avatar you ask about. I carve northern pike spearing decoys. It is a play of image and reality. Then the cross shadow. Knife and cut resistant glove also.
Cool.

Do you believe God controls time?
Time is the distance between events. God can control events. When He does so, there is a length of time that happens between them which is analogous to the notion of truth. God cannot change what is true.
 

Lon

Well-known member
So did you misspeak when you said time was physical?
Rather, the concept concerns the physical and the measure concerns the physical, so no, I did not misspeak. Time is completely related to the physical. No physical = no time.


I have no idea what you are talking about. :idunno:
It is fairly simple: 1) do you agree that when you dream, time has no binding on your dream? It is true of merely 'thoughts' as well, but it is generally easier for people to understand that when they dream in hours and days in their dreams, that dreams generally take only minutes. Real time does not stop us from going into the past or jumping into the future, even and often within the same dream.
2) Do you dream?

Then of course, you escape the confines of time when you dream. Is this hard to comprehend?

Its a good observation for this conversation. Either you are Open View because you don't get this or you don't get this because you are Open View, or both.

Why not? :idunno:
Because in order for 'minutes' (hours, days, weeks etc.) to exist, there must be a 'progression' (movement) from one state of being to another. NEVER having a beginnning, there is no place to measure/conceive of time with God. The awkward (but true) way to say this is that God's past 'is still going backward to infinity.' It is awkward because we are trying to use something finite (time) to explain the infinite and the 'time' language I've used merely gives the impression and understanding of the reality when finite (you and me, time, this universe etc.) meets and tries to explain the infinite. See my sig. God is beyond our ability to grasp; He is infinite, we are finite. We get small but accurate glimpses of His reality that is vastly beyond our created apprehension. My dog can only understand so much about me. She is created with limitations that she cannot escape. Likewise, as God's creations, we have limitations to our created being and can conceive correctly, but limited God's vastness but I can comprehend why God being infinite necessitates He is beyond our limited grasp of eternity (time). Time is a segment (finite) measurement/concept and tightly bound to our physical understandings. Without the physical? We'd have no concept of time and couldn't have it.
 

gcthomas

New member
Your link is to a crank, not a physicist. His objections to Einstein's paper is based on a misconception.

Einstein wrote: For a ray of light emitted at the time tau = 0 in the direction of the increasing epsilon ...

... but goes on to show that for an 'arbitrary' path of light the derivations don't work.

He is equally mistaken on any number of enormous self promoting claims on his site.

This ^^^^, Stripe. The link is to a crank site, and the crank himself does not know how to interpret what Einstein did, even though he claims to have found a flaw. The flaw is in his reasoning, not in the original.

So, not falsified at all, although there are thousands of blogs around the web with people claiming to have disproved Einstein's work. Interestingly, none of them seem to go for experimental disproofs, since, of course, all experimental results have exactly matched the predictions. The physics works!
 

TimLutz

New member
But it has been recorded where He has made either the earth stand still, (kept from rotating without calamity). Or special time in a battle . Either seeded up there or ect. Or do you have another plausible explanation.
And I use the same profile pic in Facebook. Which I have put in two weeks timeout, almost done. To catch up on personal matters and to do a proper study on faith to deliver to my peeps. To show that faith is not presented as a magic power to get control of God. Like some popular televangelists love to present it as. It is not pray for pay. Force God to do it my way. It is "Thy will be done". Get some rolling messy battles there sometimes. Adding tol was an aside probably will not get too involved. Found whilst trolling for a good presentation on the Nicene creed. Still working on that. But back to time inflex. If so well disproven why not replacement of Einstein's theory of stuff? As if I had to ask...

Posted from the TOL App!
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Rather, the concept concerns the physical and the measure concerns the physical, so no, I did not misspeak. Time is completely related to the physical. No physical = no time.
Oh. So now time is only "related" to physical entities.

It is fairly simple: 1) do you agree that when you dream, time has no binding on your dream?
No.

2) Do you dream?
Do you watch movies? They jump around timelines as well.

Its a good observation for this conversation. Either you are Open View because you don't get this or you don't get this because you are Open View, or both.
Or else you are ranting nonsensically. :idunno:

NEVER having a beginnning, there is no place to measure/conceive of time with God.
Why not? He did things in the past that are now finished. :idunno:

God is beyond our ability to grasp...
...but somehow you have Him figured out. :rolleyes:

But it has been recorded where He has made either the earth stand still, (kept from rotating without calamity). Or special time in a battle . Either seeded up there or ect. Or do you have another plausible explanation.
Begging the question is a logical fallacy.

If so well disproven why not replacement of Einstein's theory of stuff? As if I had to ask...

As I said, the disagreement with Einstein is almost entirely semantic. There is almost no motivation to seek a replacement for his work other than to satisfy a more intellectually pleasing understanding of the universe. His model is usable and useful and it's replacement would do little to make life easier.
 

TimLutz

New member
Pretty much my take. The cognitive resonance effect also plays a big role. Gotta get used to this posting style. Timing a bit off.

Posted from the TOL App!
 

TimLutz

New member
Logical fallacy. Either you take the Bible seriously or you put yourself on the bench. No in between.

Posted from the TOL App!
 

TimLutz

New member
Joshua 10:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
12*Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
13*So the sun stood still,
And the moon stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.
Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

Posted from the TOL App!
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
And what does this have to do with time changing?

If we move a rock from one place to another, does that change time?
 

gcthomas

New member
And what does this have to do with time changing?

If we move a rock from one place to another, does that change time?

It depends how you are defining time, Stripe. I define time as what is measured by cyclic processes like clocks, atomic emissions, half lives etc.

How do you define time, Stripe? You keep avoiding the question. How would you measure time under your conception?

Ante up - no definition means you make no sense.

:chicken:
 
Top