Steve bannon on 60 minutes

[The Barbarian]

You're now on record as saying that God said that DACA is what He wants us to do?

Come on.

Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Can't you just hear Bannon letting Jesus have it:

"You're just another bleeding heart liberal."

 

[Nihilo]

Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Can't you just hear Bannon letting Jesus have it:

"You're just another bleeding heart liberal."

Oh, so now Hebrew scriptures are written to Christians, for the Church's obedience?

Do you really want to go there?

 

[The Barbarian]

It harms America when we let the whole world come in without vetting or limits.

It's the way we did things for most of our history. In fact, during our greatest expansion as a nation, there were no limits on immigration. But there's no question that deporting nearly a million productive citizens would be a huge hit on our economy.

It harms America when we don't deliberately bring in people who will help the economy for all Americans.

The DACA kids, for example.

It particularly harms unskilled, non college educated citizens when we have a porous border because they take jobs that would have been given to the low skilled, non college educated.

That was Alabama's argument when they "got tough" with immigrants. Want to hear how that worked out? Crops rotting in the fields, contractors unable to get competent labor, and a declining economy. You really want that for America?

Any law that fails to follow these guidelines is a betrayal of our citizens and essentially makes citizenship worthless.

Since just about everyone in the world would like American citizenship, I'd say you either have it wrong, or that's not the situation we have today.

We have to make up our minds whether the USA is a land for its citizens or for the whole world.

As I showed, deportation of the DACA kids would be more than an injustice to innocent people who grew up as Americans. It would be a hit on the prosperity of the country. Is that really what you want?

 

[Nihilo]

It's the way we did things for most of our history. In fact, during our greatest expansion as a nation, there were no limits on immigration. But there's no question that deporting nearly a million productive citizens would be a huge hit on our economy.



The DACA kids, for example.



That was Alabama's argument when they "got tough" with immigrants. Want to hear how that worked out? Crops rotting in the fields, contractors unable to get competent labor, and a declining economy. You really want that for America?



Since just about everyone in the world would like American citizenship, I'd say you either have it wrong, or that's not the situation we have today.




As I showed, deportation of the DACA kids would be more than an injustice to innocent people who grew up as Americans. It would be a hit on the prosperity of the country. Is that really what you want?

At least you're now making it an economic argument instead of a dumb moral one.

 

[The Barbarian]

At least you're now making it an economic argument instead of a dumb moral one.

I realize that white supremacists are perfectly O.K. with punishing people who have done nothing wrong. The economic argument just points out these guys are dumb enough to harm themselves, just to get at people they hate.

 

[The Barbarian]

Oh, so now Hebrew scriptures are written to Christians, for the Church's obedience?

It's just God's word. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore it.

Do you really want to go there?

I know a lot of people argue that God never expected things to be the way they are today. I'm not very receptive to that one.

But you're welcome to believe it.

 

[Nihilo]

I realize that white supremacists are perfectly O.K. with punishing people who have done nothing wrong.

Do people have the right to do with their own stuff, what they want, or not? Do Americans have the right to not allow aliens to enter our territory, if we don't want to? America's path to citizenship couldn't be simpler, and I'm sure most American citizens on this discussion board did it, through being born within the country, even if their parents/mother are not in the US legally. Even in that illegal case, the child becomes an American citizen, and so has the right to vote and to voice their opinion, and if they become POTUS (which they can legally do since they are natural-born Americans), then they too can decide that, No, I don't want to invite and welcome or receive aliens right now. Aliens, get out. No more new ones, and the old ones who are here, leave. Get out.

Don't we have the right to do this? You "leftists" (Bannon's word, for Charlie Rose) act like we are immoral to think this way, but you never make a convincing argument for this, you just act like you're morally authoritative, it's a classic poker bluff, and you have zero evidence backing up that your position exists in some supernatural way, because it's what the Maker wants us to believe.

You're a censored Catholic, you should know this. The only morals that God wants us to know, is published in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Whatever else is said, by anybody, even the popes, and definitely some lay leftist such as yourself or Charlie Daniels or HRC or whomever .. whatever else is said isn't even a candle's flicker to the sun. What is in the Catechism, is what is moral. Cardinal Dolan acknowledged that Bannon was right, and DACA isn't about doctrine.

He then pulls a characteristically PROTESTANT poker move, by grabbing a notion from Sacred Scripture---a notion that didn't rise to the level of being contained within the Catechism, even though the Catechism is hundreds of pages long---I don't know how they could have fit it in, except oppositely---the cardinal then pulls a scripture or two and makes an ad hoc analysis/interpretation, pretending like, acting like, this notion has the full weight and authority of the morals expressed plainly within the Catechism. Show me where Jesus or His Apostles or His bishops, in Sacred Scripture, says that the fundamental notion of DACA, that taking our wide, wide gate, and basically running it over with a tractor, and then backing over it, and making sure that the gate will never even work again, even if we might really need it someday. You show me that.

We have a wide gate in America. Right now, it's wide open. DACA is running over the gate in a tractor. And then backing over it, so that it will never function again. Why can't we just modulate the gate, instead of having to treat the thing with supreme contempt? President Trump's predecessor chose to get rough with the gate, and President Trump has made an executive decision that dealing with the gate is Congress's job, not the POTUS---Congress, get to work. You've got six months, and the clock already started.

The economic argument just points out these guys are dumb enough to harm themselves, just to get at people they hate.

Do we have the right to shut the gate a little bit if we want to, yes or no? Is it a matter upon which intelligent people can disagree, yes or no? Why do leftists make these debates moral. These are economic policies, not moral policies. DACA recipients aren't Americans! They don't have American rights and privileges. They are at the mercy of Americans on this matter, because they are not Americans, America is not theirs, it is ours, and we have the right to deny them the rights that we Americans enjoy, because America does very much work to ensure that we have these rights; a lot goes into protecting them and recognizing them and even fighting for them, and people who couldn't even bother to meet the barest of requirements, to be born here, illegally, are just not Americans, and Americans have no moral imperative to consider this a moral matter when it's not.

DACA recipients missed their chance, and were born elsewhere and then entered the country illegally. Yes, they can't help it, and still yes, we have every right to deny them any privilege wrt United States citizenship. This is ours. We can tell anybody who's not American to leave. That's our right. As America's owners.

 

[annabenedetti]

CCC 2241:

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

 

[Nihilo]

It's just God's word. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore it.

I wish I could ignore the Word of God. Are you understanding?

I know a lot of people argue that God never expected things to be the way they are today. I'm not very receptive to that one.

Well good, because it's not what I put forth.

But you're welcome to believe it.

What does God's quote-unquote "word," have to say, about what the Hebrews should do, to an alien, who commits sodomy or bestiality or some other gravely immoral sexual act? The act that's the point of marriage, and the act whose divine point is procreation? When it's crassly and inflammatorily debased, like sodomy, or censored? "What does God want us to do to LGBs?" Barbarian? Show me the verse.

You won't.

 

[Nihilo]

CCC 2241:

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Break down how nullifying DACA violates this Text.

 

[annabenedetti]

Break down how nullifying DACA violates this Text.

Not interested in imperious commands today. Sorry to disappoint.

Although I do wonder how you think Catholics survived all those hundreds and hundreds of years without the CCC, being that it only dates to 1992 and you would put it before the authority of the popes, which is a big nono. :nono:

 

[Nihilo]

Not interested in imperious commands today. Sorry to disappoint.

I'm sorry also. lain:

Your passive aggression ranks among the highest I've ever seen online, 'the Devil his due and all.

Although I do wonder

No you don't, this is passive aggression, case in point; you can see how subtle you are here; thank you for that.

how you think Catholics survived all those hundreds and hundreds of years without the CCC, being that it only dates to 1992

I thought it was 1994 at earliest, so it's even older than I thought.

and you would put it before the authority of the popes, which is a big nono. :nono:

You need to learn your own religion better then. The CCC is what all (266) the popes teach. It's a giant mountain built of infallible papal teachings on matters of faith (the major) and morals (the minor). No pope would ever contradict anything in it, without singlehandedly simultaneously nullifying Catholicism itself all together.

Sometimes leftist Catholics and Catholic leftists act like that'd be just fine with them, so long as it promotes their own private personal moral dogmas, which are all made up, right out of thin air. lain:

 

[annabenedetti]

At least you're now making it an economic argument instead of a dumb moral one.

A Catholic Framework for Economic Life
A Statement of the U.S. Catholic BishopsNovember 1996

As followers of Jesus Christ and participants in a powerful economy, Catholics in the United States are called to work forgreater economic justice in the face of persistent poverty, growing income-gaps, and increasing discussion of economicissues in the United States and around the world. We urge Catholics to use the following ethical framework for economiclife as principles for re ection, criteria for judgment and directions for action. These principles are drawn directly fromCatholic teaching on economic life.

1. The economy exists for the person, not the person for the economy.
2. All economic life should be shaped by moral principles. Economic choices and institutions must be judged by howthey protect or undermine the life and dignity of the human person, support the family and serve the common good.
3. A fundamental moral measure of any economy is how the poor and vulnerable are faring.
4. All people have a right to life and to secure the basic necessities of life (e.g., food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, safe environment, economic security.)
5. All people have the right to economic initiative, to productive work, to just wages and bene ts, to decent working conditions as well as to organize and join unions or other associations.
6. All people, to the extent they are able, have a corresponding duty to work, a responsibility to provide the needs of their families and an obligation to contribute to the broader society.
7. In economic life, free markets have both clear advantages and limits; government has essential responsibilities and limitations; voluntary groups have irreplaceable roles, but cannot substitute for the proper working of the market andthe just policies of the state.
8. Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life.
9. Workers, owners, managers, stockholders and consumers are moral agents in economic life. By our choices, initiative,creativity and investment, we enhance or diminish economic opportunity, community life and social justice.
10. The global economy has moral dimensions and human consequences. Decisions on investment, trade, aid anddevelopment should protect human life and promote human rights, especially for those most in need wherever theymight live on this globe.

According to Pope John Paul II, the Catholic tradition calls for a “society of work, enterprise and participation” which“is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the state to assure that the basic needs of the whole society are satisfied.” (Centesimus Annus, 35). All of economic life should recognize the fact that we all are God’s children and members of one human family, called to exercise a clear priority for “the least among us.”

 

[annabenedetti]

I'm sorry also. lain:

Your passive aggression ranks among the highest I've ever seen online, 'the Devil his due and all.

You must not get around much.

You need to learn your own religion better then. The CCC is what all (266) the popes teach. It's a giant mountain built of infallible papal teachings on matters of faith (the major) and morals (the minor). No pope would ever contradict anything in it, without singlehandedly simultaneously nullifying Catholicism itself all together.

Sometimes leftist Catholics and Catholic leftists act like that'd be just fine with them, so long as it promotes their own private personal moral dogmas, which are all made up, right out of thin air. lain:

If you're interested, I recommend Pope Leo XIII's letter on Americanism.

The three pillars of Church authority are Tradition, the Scriptures, and the Magisterium. So your dismissal of any papal teaching, or that of the ordinary magisterium of the bishops and cardinals - and of Scripture in your post to Barbarian effectively kicks away two of the three pillars. That's not how Catholicism works.

 

[Nihilo]

A Catholic Framework for Economic Life
A Statement of the U.S. Catholic BishopsNovember 1996

As followers of Jesus Christ and participants in a powerful economy, Catholics in the United States are called to work forgreater economic justice in the face of persistent poverty, growing income-gaps, and increasing discussion of economicissues in the United States and around the world. We urge Catholics to use the following ethical framework for economiclife as principles for re ection, criteria for judgment and directions for action. These principles are drawn directly fromCatholic teaching on economic life.

1. The economy exists for the person, not the person for the economy.
2. All economic life should be shaped by moral principles. Economic choices and institutions must be judged by howthey protect or undermine the life and dignity of the human person, support the family and serve the common good.
3. A fundamental moral measure of any economy is how the poor and vulnerable are faring.
4. All people have a right to life and to secure the basic necessities of life (e.g., food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, safe environment, economic security.)
5. All people have the right to economic initiative, to productive work, to just wages and bene ts, to decent working conditions as well as to organize and join unions or other associations.
6. All people, to the extent they are able, have a corresponding duty to work, a responsibility to provide the needs of their families and an obligation to contribute to the broader society.
7. In economic life, free markets have both clear advantages and limits; government has essential responsibilities and limitations; voluntary groups have irreplaceable roles, but cannot substitute for the proper working of the market andthe just policies of the state.
8. Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life.
9. Workers, owners, managers, stockholders and consumers are moral agents in economic life. By our choices, initiative,creativity and investment, we enhance or diminish economic opportunity, community life and social justice.
10. The global economy has moral dimensions and human consequences. Decisions on investment, trade, aid anddevelopment should protect human life and promote human rights, especially for those most in need wherever theymight live on this globe.

According to Pope John Paul II, the Catholic tradition calls for a “society of work, enterprise and participation” which“is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the state to assure that the basic needs of the whole society are satisfied.” (Centesimus Annus, 35). All of economic life should recognize the fact that we all are God’s children and members of one human family, called to exercise a clear priority for “the least among us.”

A WALL OF TEXT CUT-N-PASTE FROM SOME WEBSITE.

lain:

 

[annabenedetti]

A WALL OF TEXT CUT-N-PASTE FROM SOME WEBSITE.

lain:

Yeah. From the USCCB. Your magisterial authority.

:chuckle:

 

[Nihilo]

You must not get around much.

Almost magically passive aggressive in passivity and in aggression both; not only that, but gracious and too humble to admit it!

There's no smilie for that Anna. LAIN: doesn't work against that.

If you're interested, I recommend Pope Leo XIII's letter on Americanism.

I am interested. I'll check it out.

The three pillars of Church authority are Tradition, the Scriptures, and the Magisterium. So your dismissal of any papal teaching, or that of the ordinary magisterium of the bishops and cardinals - and of Scripture in your post to Barbarian effectively kicks away two of the three pillars. That's not how Catholicism works.

You'll forgive me while I stick my fingers in my ears and say nah-nah-na-nah over-and-over again. I'm going to put my money on that the Catholic Church herself, through her official teaching organ the papacy, who has promulgated and published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a more trustworthy teacher of just what the Catholic faith is, than some anonymous user account "annabenedetti" from the internet.

 

[Nihilo]

Yeah. From the USCCB. Your magisterial authority.

:chuckle:

Who can't contradict a single thing the papacy teaches ex cathedra and you know it. If they do, even if all of them do, they'll be excommunicated. You left out that part.

 

[annabenedetti]

Almost magically passive aggressive in passivity and in aggression both; not only that, but gracious and too humble to admit it!

There's no smilie for that Anna. LAIN: doesn't work against that.

You're working so hard! I'm impressed.

I am interested. I'll check it out.

It's easily found online.

You'll forgive me while I stick my fingers in my ears and say nah-nah-na-nah over-and-over again. I'm going to put my money on that the Catholic Church herself, through her official teaching organ the papacy, who has promulgated and published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a more trustworthy teacher of just what the Catholic faith is, than some anonymous user account "annabenedetti" from the internet.

You're going to do what you want, all I can do is accidentally stick my foot out when you run past with your fingers in your ears. :chuckle:

Of course you don't have to listen to me, but I haven't given you any teaching unique to me. The three pillars I gave you aren't mine - you'll find them in Catholic teaching - if you want to look for them. Google them, if you don't believe me. The bishops are the teaching magisterium of the Church. The Pope is the ultimate magisterial authority, but he's only first among the bishops. Google that too if you'd like.

The CCC is helpful. But Catholicism didn't start there and it doesn't end there.

I hope you do read that letter on Americanism, and the history of the heresy of Americanism. It's interesting.

 

[annabenedetti]

Who can't contradict a single thing the papacy teaches ex cathedra and you know it. If they do, even if all of them do, they'll be excommunicated. You left out that part.

I don't see anywhere where the Pope corrected the bishops' statement. He certainly has the authority to do so if necessary.