Standing Up To Jehovah's Witnesses

KingdomRose

New member
State for us, right now, in your own words, what you believe The Trinity to be...waiting...

After having discussions with innumerable Trinity believers, from Baptists to Catholics to non-denominational fundamentalists, the one strain of thought that I can get out of all those hours of conversation is this: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all co-equal and co-eternal.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
After having discussions with innumerable Trinity believers, from Baptists to Catholics to non-denominational fundamentalists, the one strain of thought that I can get out of all those hours of conversation is this: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all co-equal and co-eternal.

Well, at least they were telling you the truth.
 

Apple7

New member
After having discussions with innumerable Trinity believers, from Baptists to Catholics to non-denominational fundamentalists, the one strain of thought that I can get out of all those hours of conversation is this: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all co-equal and co-eternal.

If each is the One God, then how can there be a lesser God?
 

WeberHome

New member
-
OBJECTION: How can you totally side-step the fact that Jesus suddenly
appeared to the Apostles after they had locked a door? If the human Jesus
was raised in a real human body, how could he go through a locked door?

RESPONSE: There's just no excuse for an objection like that one. Have we
already forgotten how the human Christ walked on water, restored withered
limbs, cured blindness, healed serious diseases like leprosy, revived the
dead, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into
wine, and levitated? What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking
through walls? Disappearing? How hard could either of those two feats really
be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

Too many people want Christianity to be a reasonable religion. It's not.
Christianity is a supernatural religion.

It perplexes me sometimes how it is that people can say they believe in
miracles but yet cannot believe that God can make a physical human body
pass through a closed and locked door. Well; if they can understand how
Daniel's three friends survived totally unscathed inside a superheated fiery
furnace, then they'll understand how a physical human body can pass
through a closed and locked door. It's just downright shameful that folk
daring to call themselves Jehovah's witnesses bear false witness about His
power over the laws of nature.

OBJECTION: Well; if Jehovah has enough power over the laws of physics to
pass a physical human body through closed and locked doors, then couldn't
He pass Michael through the door as a spirit and then materialize him on the
other side as a human in order to communicate with his friends?

RESPONSE: That would be acceptable if only there were some record of it in
the New Testament. But it is an irrefutable fact that the New Testament not
even one time, on any occasion, nor under any circumstances, nor in any
situation, either attests, alleges, alludes, or states that an angel named
Michael appeared to Christ's friends cloaked in a human avatar. That
doctrine doesn't come from the New Testament. It's a humanistic fantasy.

OBJECTION: Angels in the Old Testament appeared to men in materialized
bodies; for example the three men who visited Abraham in the 18th chapter
of Genesis.

RESPONSE: Beware of making the mistake of assuming that the appearance
of angels in human form in the Old Testament validates the Society's theory
that one named Michael did the very same thing in the New.

It is an irrefutable fact that the New Testament never even one time, on any
occasion, nor under any circumstances, nor in any situation, either attests,
alleges, alludes, or states that an angel named Michael appeared to Christ's
friends cloaked in a human avatar. That doctrine doesn't come from the New
Testament. It's a humanistic fantasy.

It's commonly assumed that the two men identified as angels who showed
up at the gate of Sodom were two of the men who visited Abraham. But
even so; the Old Testament word for "angel" is mal'ak (mal-awk') which
should never be taken to eo ipso indicate celestial beings. The word simply
means a dispatched deputy; viz: a messenger; either human or celestial. For
example:

†. Gen 32:3-4 . . Then Jacob sent messengers ahead of him to Esau his
brother to the land of Seir, the field of Edom, and he commanded them,
saying: "yada, yada, yada"

The Hebrew word for the ordinary human messengers in that verse is
mal'ak. Here's another example:

†. Gen 32:6 . . In time the messengers returned to Jacob, saying: "yada,
yada, yada".

Here's another example where mal'ak indicates ordinary human beings
rather than celestial beings.

†. Num 20:14 . . Subsequently Moses sent messengers from Kadesh to the
king of Edom: "This is what your brother Israel has said: "yada, yada, yada."

And another:

†. Gen 6:17 . . Only Rahab the prostitute may keep on living, she and all
who are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers whom we
sent out.

And another:

†. Mal 2:7 . . For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men
should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord
of hosts.

There are dozens of examples in the Old Testament where the word mal'ak
indicates ordinary human beings instead of celestial beings. Bottom line is:
the 18th and 19th chapters of Genesis are useless for confirming beyond a
shadow of doubt that an angel named Michael appeared to Christ's friends
cloaked in a materialized human body; viz: an avatar.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 

Ben Masada

New member
Standing Up to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Standing Up to Jehovah's Witnesses.

Thanks for NOT correcting my previous comment that your book of faith informs the reader that Jews incompetently worshiped Yahweh.

So...again...as a Jew means absolutely nothing.....to anyone....except pity for being a total and complete screw-up.

Period.

Jesus could not, incompetently worship Yahweh. He was a loyal Jew and loyal Jews do not, incompetently worship Yahweh.
 

KingdomRose

New member
Well, at least they were telling you the truth.

I don't think so. Some would say that they are equal and yet when Jesus came to Earth he was temporarily unequal; some say that Jesus and the Father are the same (which cancels out a "trinity")....they all have different ideas as to what equality really is and what the relationship of the Father and Son is. It's a jumble of confusion. Not all believers in the Trinity agree on the DETAILS.

Beyond that, the doctrine can be readily debunked, and I have listed several verses that help to do so....if anyone has bothered to read them. (Post # 261)
 

Apple7

New member
I don't think so. Some would say that they are equal and yet when Jesus came to Earth he was temporarily unequal; some say that Jesus and the Father are the same (which cancels out a "trinity")....they all have different ideas as to what equality really is and what the relationship of the Father and Son is. It's a jumble of confusion. Not all believers in the Trinity agree on the DETAILS.

Beyond that, the doctrine can be readily debunked, and I have listed several verses that help to do so....if anyone has bothered to read them. (Post # 261)

I already refuted them.

But...pretend nothing was said, and continue in your cultic ignorance...
 

Timotheos

New member
I already refuted them.

But...pretend nothing was said, and continue in your cultic ignorance...
Remember 1 Peter 3:15 .

You make our side look bad when you say things like "continue in your cultic ignorance". Please, make a defense for your position but do it with gentleness and respect.
 

Apple7

New member
Remember 1 Peter 3:15 .

You make our side look bad when you say things like "continue in your cultic ignorance". Please, make a defense for your position but do it with gentleness and respect.


And answering, Peter said to Him, Explain this parable to us. But Jesus said, Are you also still so stupid? (Mat 15.15 -16)
 

WeberHome

New member
-
CLAIM: People Who Condemn Jehovah's Witnesses Are Unloving!

RESPONSE: A remark like that one is what's known as an ad hominem;
which Webster's defines as an attack on an opponent's character rather than
by an answer to the contentions made.

Ad hominems are typically emotional and reactive rather than rational and
objective. And they're oftentimes red herrings; which Webster's defines as
something unimportant that is used to stop people from noticing or thinking
about something important.

I've encountered ad hominem behavior not only among Jehovah's Witnesses,
but also among Rome's followers who perceive that any and all opposition to
Rome's beliefs and practices is motivated by hatred for Catholics. That's just
rabid fanaticism, through and through.

But anyway; the Watch Tower Society is such a hypocrite. It flaps its lips
about love; while in its heart longing for the day when every non Jehovah's
Witness on earth is slain and they have the whole globe to themselves.

Let's say that 12/17/2015 is that day. Well; the world population to that
date, as of 11:16 am EST, was estimated to be 7,292,781,273 people while
the world's number of Jehovah's Witnesses was estimated at 8,200,000;
meaning that if the slaughter began on that date, something like
7,284,581,273 people would lose their lives in order to make the world a
safer place for the Watch Tower Society.

That's 7.28+ Billion people who would all be slain for the sake of Charles
Taze Russell and Joseph Franklin Rutherford; in contrast to the mere 76 who
lost their lives because of David Koresh, and the 913 because of Jim Jones.

To put that number of people in perspective; let's say that the average
height of the slain is four feet. Well, 7,284,581,273 people that height laid
head to toe would stretch out to 5,518,622 statute miles. Ergo: the slain
would circle the globe roughly 221 times; which is about equal to eleven
round trips to the Moon.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member

How so when John 14:28 & Philippians 2:9 (to name but a few scriptures) clearly contradict this erroneous belief.

The King James version tells us below at each verse:-

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John:14:28

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Philippians:2:9

John 14:28 contain Jesus's own words. Its patently clear two people are being spoken about in his sentence. Himself and his father, God.

Likewise in Phillipians how can Jesus exalt himself above himself if he was God. Indeed Phillipians 2:11 goes onto to say "and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Again two distinct and clear individuals are being spoken of in these verses.
 

Apple7

New member
How so when John 14:28 & Philippians 2:9 (to name but a few scriptures) clearly contradict this erroneous belief.

The King James version tells us below at each verse:-

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John:14:28

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Philippians:2:9

John 14:28 contain Jesus's own words. Its patently clear two people are being spoken about in his sentence. Himself and his father, God.

Likewise in Phillipians how can Jesus exalt himself above himself if he was God. Indeed Phillipians 2:11 goes onto to say "and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Again two distinct and clear individuals are being spoken of in these verses.


Each is NOT the other; but each is the ONE God.

3 Persons: 1 Being.

The Trinity.
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member
Each is NOT the other; but each is the ONE God.

3 Persons: 1 Being.

The Trinity.

Im afraid you're just repeating yourself. And no disrespect intended but what you've said makes no sense and certainly doesn't accord with the scriptures i posted: for my Father is greater than I. Jesus's own words...
 

Apple7

New member
Im afraid you're just repeating yourself. And no disrespect intended but what you've said makes no sense and certainly doesn't accord with the scriptures i posted: for my Father is greater than I. Jesus's own words...

'Greater' in what respect?
 

KingdomRose

New member
How so when John 14:28 & Philippians 2:9 (to name but a few scriptures) clearly contradict this erroneous belief.

The King James version tells us below at each verse:-

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John:14:28

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Philippians:2:9

John 14:28 contain Jesus's own words. Its patently clear two people are being spoken about in his sentence. Himself and his father, God.

Likewise in Phillipians how can Jesus exalt himself above himself if he was God. Indeed Phillipians 2:11 goes onto to say "and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Again two distinct and clear individuals are being spoken of in these verses.

Yes, exactly.
 
Top