Sodomite admits she's out to recruit schoolkids

shagster01

shagster01

New member
Traditio said:
Absolutely disgusting.

What annoys me about this is that this is a clear overstep on the part of the State. Moral education should be left to the parents and religious authorities.

If any moral education at all goes on in the schools, it should be limited only to those matters which are 1. universally accepted and 2. absolutely necessary to inculcate respect for the laws.

I have no problem with the State telling children that they shouldn't ridicule, bully or otherwise beat the tar out of people for living devious lifestyles (or for any other reason; passing judgment on the behavior of people and executing sentence belongs, on this side of eternity, to the State, not to private individuals). But this? This is just an overreach.
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Right on :thumb:
 
Traditio

Traditio

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shagster01 said:
Right on :thumb:
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Note that if you agree to what I've said, this has fairly radical, but very satisfying, consequences that you may or may not agree with. For example:

1. Should abstinence only sexual education be taught in school, or should school children be taught how to use contraceptives?

Neither. Either involve a certain number of moral presuppositions which, when it comes to the education of the youth, should be left to parents and religious authorities. Students should learn about the reproductive system in biology just as they would learn about any other biological system. No more. No less. The latter solution, at least (that the State should condone "comprehensive sexual education) involves a major overreach on the part of the State.

2. By extension, we also may see that the State should not sponsor contraceptives or abortion.
 
kiwimacahau

kiwimacahau

Well-known member
Please note the following:

KJV:

1 Kings 14
24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

1 Kings 15
12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22
46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

2 Kings 23
7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

In the context of the verses, worshipers of other Gods are being spoken of. Read the verses in context for yourselves.
 
TracerBullet

TracerBullet

New member
kiwimacahau said:
Please note the following:

KJV:

1 Kings 14
24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

1 Kings 15
12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22
46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

2 Kings 23
7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

In the context of the verses, worshipers of other Gods are being spoken of. Read the verses in context for yourselves.
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That fits in with the passage in Ezekiel regarding Sodom

'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” Ezekiel 16:49-50

Detestable things - shiqquts; sheqets; shiqqutsim - a term always applied to idol-worship or to objects connected with idolatry
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
TracerBullet said:
That fits in with the passage in Ezekiel regarding Sodom

'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” Ezekiel 16:49-50

Detestable things - shiqquts; sheqets; shiqqutsim - a term always applied to idol-worship or to objects connected with idolatry
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Don't forget the man-rape.
 
Traditio

Traditio

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kiwimacahau said:
Please note the following:

KJV:

1 Kings 14
24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

1 Kings 15
12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

1 Kings 22
46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

2 Kings 23
7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

In the context of the verses, worshipers of other Gods are being spoken of. Read the verses in context for yourselves.
Click to expand...

Several points:

1. The way that you cite verses is strange. For clarity, please give: Book, chapter number, verse number. E.g., for your last verse, you should have put: 2 Kings 23:7. Preferably in parentheses at the end of the verse.

2. I would just like to point out that what you gave above is not a continuous text. You cherry picked individual verses, out of context, from different chapters and different books.

3. I checked at least two of the verses against the Greek, and I would like to point out that the word(s) translated as "sodomite" in the passages that you gave don't actually correspond to any such Greek term.

4. There is no compelling reason to think that the sin, which the King James Version apparently translates in terms of sodomy (and which the Douay Rheins and the Latin Vulgate translates as being "effeminate") has anything to do with idolatry. Yes, the sin in question is mentioned in direct proximity to a mention of unlawful religious practices. It doesn't follow from this that the two sins in question are related. Quoting the Douay Rheims:

"And Juda did evil in the sight of the Lord, and provoked him above all that their fathers had done, in their sins which they committed. [23] For they also built them altars, and statues, and groves upon every high hill and under every green tree: [24] There were also the effeminate* in the land, and they did according to all the abominations of the people whom the Lord had destroyed before the face of the children of Israel" (3 Kings 14:22-24 (1 Kings in modern translations)).

Your assumption is that, since the scriptural writer had just mentioned unlawful religious practices, that the next thing he mentions is directly related to the last. I.e., he's still talking about the same thing.

I see no reason to think so. Again, let us go back to verse 22 of the same book and chapter: "And Juda did evil in the sight of the Lord, and provoked him above all that their fathers had done, in their sins which they committed." Note how "sins" is in the plural, not in the singular.

But setting the scriptures and Sacred Tradition aside (which has always taught that homosexual conduct is intrinsically evil), it still must be noted that homosexual conduct violates natural law and we know this by natural reason. Let us suppose that the Bible is unclear about this (and it isn't). So what? Homosexual conduct is still wrong. :idunno:


*The Douay Rheims has a footnote explaining that the effeminate in question are catamites. I quote: "The effeminate: Catamites, or men addicted to unnatural lust. "
 
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