Should we pay tithes to be bless and free?

SOTK

New member
c.moore,

You seem pretty confused. Do you believe in tithing or not? I know I haven't read every post in this thread, but I've read enough to have the feeling that you want us to tell you that it's "okay to tithe". As you have read, a lot of us don't believe in this and many people have demonstrated that we don't have to tithe as Christians. Personally, I think you listen to your pastor too much. Just because he's a pastor doesn't mean that he's right. If the Spirit is causing you to question your pastor's opinions on tithing, listen to Him and not your pastor. I'll tell you something else too; if your pastor told me that I was gonna go to Hell for not tithing or that I wasn't "doing God's will because I wasn't tithing", I'd tell him where to get off!

Bottom line: If you feel like you have to tithe, go for it. That's your decision, but don't count on us to help you to feel good about it. That's between you and God and not between you and your pastor.

SOTK
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Crow you give excellent advice. God Bless You. c. more follow your heart and give what it tell you to give. Your gift to God is personal, keep it that way.
 

elected4ever

New member
brethren I am now angry. I am filled with anger at those who pray upon the weak and the helpless. I am equally angry with people like you keypurr and SOTK for being like I have been most of my life. Willing to let false doctrine stand.

I like so many others have run to the cave and hid in the face of confrontation with the wicked that are dressed in sheep's clothing. When I get this way I ask my King what I should do and to give me wisdom in dealing with these people and the only word that comes to mind is the following parable told by Jesus.

Matthew 13:24 Â_¶Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 Â_But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 Â_But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 Â_So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 Â_He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 Â_But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Â_Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

What reply can I make in the face of such wisdom. I am humbled before my King and do not put the blade to the field lest I hurt God's anointed also. I bring myself to submit to the will of my King and let the anger pass.
 

SOTK

New member
Originally posted by elected4ever

brethren I am now angry. I am filled with anger at those who pray upon the weak and the helpless. I am equally angry with people like you keypurr and SOTK for being like I have been most of my life. Willing to let false doctrine stand.

I like so many others have run to the cave and hid in the face of confrontation with the wicked that are dressed in sheep's clothing. When I get this way I ask my King what I should do and to give me wisdom in dealing with these people and the only word that comes to mind is the following parable told by Jesus............

What are you talking about? c. moore has been told by numerous Christians in this thread, 8 pages of posts, that tithing is not required of Christians. Tithing is a part of the Law which we are not under. I myself have stated this. I refuse to beat a subject to death. The seeds have been planted and the Truth is there for c. moore and everybody else to see.

Letting false doctrine stand?? What are you talking about? What, do you want myself or others to reach through the computer screen and make him change his mind? c. moore is obviously not ready to listen, and he can't be made to listen. The facts are before him. If he is gonna continue to practice tithing eventhough we've shown that he doesn't have to, fine. I don't think he's in danger of going to Hell, do you? Hopefully, through further study and prayer on his part, he'll remember what we've all stated.

"People like you"?? Yeah, you know me, huh, elected4ever? A few sentences on a forum and you know me. Right? You know me enough to accuse me of letting false doctrine stand. OOOkay. :rolleyes: Whatever you say, brother.

SOTK
 
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Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Crow

Why do you keep telling us this stuff? If you are having grave misgivings about what you are hearing from the pulpit, discuss it with your pastor. If you don't feel right with his answers and the scriptures do not support his teachings, find another church assembly...
Don't solicit advice from outside the community...

Go talk to the pastor and if you don't agree, split...

Good idea, in theory. But this attitude partially explains why there are more than 33,000 Christian denominations...

If one's leadership is wrong, what about praying for the deity to change their minds and trusting God lead them into truth?

Or doesn't that work in real life? :think:
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by c.moore

According to my pastor and church i should get like other people and stay poor busted and depressed?:nono:
Yup.

Just shut up and do what you're told. Paul taught that believers are slaves.

Only apostates and heretics question the leaders' teachings...

Remember, that's one reason they call believers sheep...
 

elected4ever

New member
Sozo

e4e ----OK, Maybe I wasn't clear. My bad :eek:

When people like c.moore continue to act stupid and entertain false doctrine I get :mad: and question as to what I should do about it. What I wont to do is :box: but what I actually do is hide by allowing them to embrace there false doctrine. but what i really wont to do is :Grizzly: :freak: I get so tired of:sozo: The rest of us are of the same mold I think and I get :mad: at others for having the same fault as me. (Maybe that is not a fault at all but just a personal perception.) The scripture quoted is my Father's word of wisdom to me and I have to let my anger pass. It was not an attempt to attack anyone.:eek:
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Zakath

Don't solicit advice from outside the community...

Go talk to the pastor and if you don't agree, split...

Good idea, in theory. But this attitude partially explains why there are more than 33,000 Christian denominations...

If one's leadership is wrong, what about praying for the deity to change their minds and trusting God lead them into truth?

Or doesn't that work in real life? :think:

The mature thing is to try to work things out in person rather than gossiping or running away like a kid.

There is a way to appeal to the authorities over us (parents, teachers, police, pastors, government, etc.). The first step would be to appeal to God, their authority, and then with love, wisdom, and humility approach the delegated authority. If they do not listen, bring someone with you. There may come a time to part ways.

Being pressured to tithe is wrong. If leadership teach it as a principle without coercion or guilt trips, the individual can decide based on Scripture and conscience. Some tithe in my local church, but many do not. This does not create a two-class system in the eyes of the leadership or people (the treasurer is the only one who knows the confidential giving patterns). This is ultimately between man and God.

Romans 14 deals with the weaker and stronger brother and has principles for 'grey areas'. Some consider the Sabbath and tithing black and white issues (they are under the Law, and Christians are not). Paul did not take the condemning approach most do here to sincere 'cmoore' and myself. Paul shared principles of wisdom on the divisive issues of the law and grace.

Romans 14 "ACCEPT (vs name call) him whose faith is weak, WITHOUT passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything (meat; dietary laws; food to idols),...another...only vegetables....The man who eats everything (or tithes or does not tithe or worships on Saturday instead of Sunday, etc.) must NOT look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not CONDEMN the man who does, for GOD (who sees the heart/motives, unlike you self-righteous religious dudes) has ACCEPTED him. WHO ARE YOU to JUDGE someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the LORD is able to make him stand.

One man considers one day more sacred than another (law/Sabbath cf. tithe); another man considers every day alike. Each one should be FULLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND. He who regards one day as special (or tithes...reasonable application in principle?), does so TO THE LORD (motive, not letter of law/legalism). He who eats meat, eats to the Lord (or tithes), for he gives thanks to God (spirit, attitude, heart vs bondage to legalism); and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God (different practices, same motive= acceptable).....we belong to the Lord (I have no patience for those who label us evil doers and Christ haters because we do not follow your views to the letter)....you then, why do YOU judge your brother? Or why do YOU look down on your brother (still a brother with differing convictions, rather than an enemy of the gospel...sozo?)? For we all stand before GOD'S judgment seat (and He alone will Judge in truth and righteousness)...so then, EACH of us will give an account of himself to God.

Therefore let us STOP passing judgment on one another. Instead...stumbling block (love)...As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. BUT IF anyone regards something as unclean, then for HIM (only) it is unclean...you are no longer acting in love...For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating or drinking (or tithing, or Sabbath keeping or drinking, etc.) but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way (whether they tithe or not) is pleasing to God and approved by men (except the weaker brother who ironically judges others for not following their rules)...So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and GOD (vs hit list on TOL)...and everything that does not come from faith is sin. We who are strong (free) ought to bear with the failings of the weak......spirit of unity...ACCEPT one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God...."

cf. I Cor. 8-10 for more principles on heart attitude vs outward practices that are disputable....rights/responsibilities...believer's freedom and wisdom (vs black/white condemnations).

Jesus often condemned the Pharisees for their legalistic views at the expense of the spirit of the law. If you cannot say amen to Pauline principles, say ouch. Your condemnation of others makes you the weaker brother. The strong believer is free to follow his heart and conscience. I would say slander and wrong judgments are at least as bad as giving 10% to God (I Cor. 16:2= in keeping with his income= systematic/proportionate).

Whether one determines in his heart to give 10%, 1%, $0, 50%, daily, weekly, yearly, etc. is not the issue. The issue is the freedom of believers and one's heart motive and attitude. You are not more spiritual because you give 17% and cmoore gives 10% (easier math). You are not less spiritual if you give $1 (debatable) if you are a millionaire?

It is about the heart and motives and spirit of the law. To get hung up on 'tithe' makes you more legalistic than those who do tithe. Within God's moral law there is areas of freedom to give as unto God. Someone who tithes with the wrong motive is worse than someone who does not tithe with the right motive.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by godrulz

The mature thing is to try to work things out in person rather than gossiping or running away like a kid.

There is a way to appeal to the authorities over us (parents, teachers, police, pastors, government, etc.). The first step would be to appeal to God, their authority, and then with love, wisdom, and humility approach the delegated authority. If they do not listen, bring someone with you. There may come a time to part ways.
Gee... if only you'd been there to offer help to all those people at Jonestown or Waco?
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I am talking about approaching God-ordained, godly leadership and authorities, not nut cases, dictators, cult leaders. There is a place to flee, rebuke, disobey, etc., but this requires wisdom depending on the case.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by godrulz

I am talking about approaching God-ordained, godly leadership and authorities, not nut cases, dictators, cult leaders.
I understand that, and you have made the judgment that Benny Hinn is not a nut case. Nearly all of us at TOL disagree with you.

Benny is one of whom that every child of God should flee!
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Benny's not a nutcase, he's a con man. Two very different animals. :think:

"Crazy like a fox." as my mother in law used to say.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
godrulz
How can you tell if someone is God-ordained?
What makes a person godly leader?
Wasn't Jesus called cult leader in his day?
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Sozo

I understand that, and you have made the judgment that Benny Hinn is not a nut case. Nearly all of us at TOL disagree with you.

Benny is one of whom that every child of God should flee!

Actually, I have grave concerns about Hinn, especially things from ten years ago. I do not know much about him, but warning lights and bells go off when one hears about his nutty ideas. If I pseudo-defended him generically, it was to try to establish evidence and documentation, rather than hearsay (not everything on the internet is credible). I am probably in the anti-Hinn camp, skeptical, and concerned. I have a loved one who feels they want to go to his meeting to seek the Healer (Jesus). I want credible info. to share without crushing one's hopes for healing.
 

Crow

New member
Originally posted by Zakath

Don't solicit advice from outside the community...

Nothing wrong with that. But there come a point at which you're just rehashing the same old stuff, and it's time to address the issue, not just keep on talking about it.

Go talk to the pastor and if you don't agree, split...

If my pastor teaches that which I feel is contrary to scripture, I will discuss it with him. If it's wrong to the point that I am extremely uncomfortable with it, as c.moore appears to be, rather than just ***** and moan, I'm moving on out.

Good idea, in theory. But this attitude partially explains why there are more than 33,000 Christian denominations...

Probably.

If one's leadership is wrong, what about praying for the deity to change their minds and trusting God lead them into truth?

Or doesn't that work in real life? :think:

It works just fine. WE are the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ exists so that He can work through us, otherwise, we'd just be "the Saved." "The deity" expects us to get up off of our butts and do this, not just sit down and compose another "gimmie" prayer for God to do that which we are fully capable of doing--approaching someone who is preaching, knowingly or unknowingly, false doctrine. Just as Paul did not sit and pray for God to change Peter's mind when Peter was teaching false doctrine and sit back and wait for the change--he approached Peter and none too subtely confronted him about it.
 
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c.moore

New member
Originally posted by SOTK

c.moore,

You seem pretty confused. Do you believe in tithing or not? I know I haven't read every post in this thread, but I've read enough to have the feeling that you want us to tell you that it's "okay to tithe". As you have read, a lot of us don't believe in this and many people have demonstrated that we don't have to tithe as Christians. Personally, I think you listen to your pastor too much. Just because he's a pastor doesn't mean that he's right. If the Spirit is causing you to question your pastor's opinions on tithing, listen to Him and not your pastor. I'll tell you something else too; if your pastor told me that I was gonna go to Hell for not tithing or that I wasn't "doing God's will because I wasn't tithing", I'd tell him where to get off!

Bottom line: If you feel like you have to tithe, go for it. That's your decision, but don't count on us to help you to feel good about it. That's between you and God and not between you and your pastor.

SOTK

I believe to the point of have done this for years and it does work as to prove God and he came through.

The point is that when my mentor, or pastos tell me I can`t be blessed and my harvest will be dead by my giving when i don`t pay tithes and it is not a law at all it is about love and giving what belongs to God in the first place and it is not all but only 10% which normally all belongs to Him.

God is asking only to give the 10%, just like if you have a child and you give your child ten apples and you just want your child to give you back one of the apple which will please you, but your child want to give 3 or five they are disobeying an not making you happy because they didn`t give you exactly what you wanted, and asked, in love so you the child is showing lack of love by not giving you what you ask for, so is explain to me by my pastor about the same principle of tithes.

my church say`s if you don`t tithes their is a question about how much you really Love God if your money come first before God , then maybe your heart is more in money or the rejection of 10% than God.

So this is what my church teach about tithes.

My pastor didn`t say I am going to hell just I won`t get the door of heaven open on me which is the harvest of blessing He has planed for me.
My blessing here are closed because I have rob from God as a thief.

He said If I want I can run to another church or drop out of all church but God is still every where and the principles still stand against me regardless, but I am still saved and born again and will go to heaven as a poor non tithe christian.
What I mean about poor is not gibing my best , or running the race to please God and that is poor , when God say`s not so well´done my son.


God Bless
 

c.moore

New member
Originally posted by keypurr

Crow you give excellent advice. God Bless You. c. more follow your heart and give what it tell you to give. Your gift to God is personal, keep it that way.

My heart say`s give 10% as to show my perfect love to Christ specially when he gave all to us on the cross, so why not this little 10% back.

I will give much more , but i do want to do what is right and don`t have my trust in money before God.

I do remember when I first started tiheing I was on welfare and after a half a year my wife was top secretary of our church and was making good money more than enough and we were debt free and owe nobody except just to love them, so for my family the tithes and giving really works.

My heart reminded my of my awesome testimony on tithes first na d how after tihtes the giving is so blessed in over flow and faith.
 

c.moore

New member
Originally posted by Sozo

I understand that, and you have made the judgment that Benny Hinn is not a nut case. Nearly all of us at TOL disagree with you.

Benny is one of whom that every child of God should flee!

I heard benny Hinn didn`t pay his tithes at one time for a couple of years and he latter payed by the past tithes and caught up all the tithes payment and that why he has a multi million dollar ministry with signs and wonders, and millians getting saved world wide, even in nation no other ministry is allowed.

Maybe Benny Hinn is proof of Malichi that he prove God and the fruits works.

Even the cargo ships of food and clothing he sends to Africa is his cheerful giving and the harvest he reap should be great.AMEN!
 
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