Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[genuineoriginal]

If you look at what I have actually said you would see that I have never supported them.

You are supporting them by refusing to tell them that their acts are worthy of the death penalty and objecting when I try to point out that fact.

Yes I would. That is why I tell them that their acts will keep them out of heaven. The may repent and live celebrate, but that does not mean that they are not homosexual. Their orientation will not condemn them, their acts will.

You are condemning them by accepting the lie that it is an "orientation" instead of a perverted sexual desire.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Makes no difference whether the woman is married or not. She is guilty of nothing, the person looking with lust is the guilty party.

In context, the verse is about lusting after a married woman.
It does matter whether she is married or not, since you cannot commit adultery with an unmarried woman, according to the commands in the Torah that Jesus was talking about.

 

[CabinetMaker]

In context, the verse is about lusting after a married woman.
It does matter whether she is married or not, since you cannot commit adultery with an unmarried woman, according to the commands in the Torah that Jesus was talking about.

So I can cheat on my wife with an unmarried woman and I'm not guilty of adultery. Good to know.

 

[glassjester]

So I can cheat on my wife with an unmarried woman and I'm not guilty of adultery. Good to know.

If you did that, would that be a sin?

 

[Bright Raven]

In context, the verse is about lusting after a married woman.
It does matter whether she is married or not, since you cannot commit adultery with an unmarried woman, according to the commands in the Torah that Jesus was talking about.

:doh: You are the adulterer if she isn't married, you still are.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You are supporting them by refusing to tell them that their acts are worthy of the death penalty and objecting when I try to point out that fact.

I don't think that they warrant a death penalty. In fact, I think your position turns people away from God and I would not want to have to explain that to God.

GO: God wants you stoned to death you filthy sinner!! (Generally only spoke to homosexuals, only very rarely spoken to adulterers.)
Me (some time later): Would you like to hear about God's plan for you?
Homosexual: Already have. He wants me dead.

And now that person is forever lost to Christ because you could not find it in your heart to look past a persons sins and tell them that God loves them no matter what they have done. Once they accept Jesus then Jesus will change their life.

You are condemning them by accepting the lie that it is an "orientation" instead of a perverted sexual desire.

*sigh* Again, an orientation does not lend legitimacy to homosexuality. A much older man marrying a much younger girl is a perverted sexual desire based on a heterosexual orientation.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If you did that, would that be a sin?

According to GO, it is perfectly acceptable to cheat on my wife as long as the woman I am cheating with is not married.

 

[Bright Raven]

According to GO, it is perfectly acceptable to cheat on my wife as long as the woman I am cheating with is not married.

And GO be nuts too.

 

[glassjester]

According to GO, it is perfectly acceptable to cheat on my wife as long as the woman I am cheating with is not married.

If you committed adultery, would that be a sin? I'm asking you. Not Genuine Original.

Would that be a sin?

 

[CabinetMaker]

If you committed adultery, would that be a sin? I'm asking you. Not Genuine Original.

Would that be a sin?

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...&postcount=372

I think Paul describes the stuggle between what is sin and how it relates to each of us.

Is it a sin? In the conventional term, yes. Do I avoid having an affair because it is a sin? No. I avoid having an affair because it is the correct and moral thing. That is the difference between being ruled by fear of sin and loving and serving God.

 

[glassjester]

Is it a sin? In the conventional term, yes. Do I avoid having an affair because it is a sin? No. I avoid having an affair because it is the correct and moral thing. That is the difference between being ruled by fear of sin and loving and serving God.

Absolutely!

 

[glassjester]

And lust is sin.

 

[CabinetMaker]

And lust is sin.

This is a very interesting question because it has far reaching implications. It establishes an entirely new way of determining sin. Under the Law of the Profits, sin was defined by an act. When Jesus said that even looking at a woman with lust in your heart made you guilty of adultery sin is no longer an act, it is a thought.

If you are angry and think about killing the person you are angry with, you are guilty of murder. Is thinking about murder a sin?

You see a really nice car and you want it so bad you can taste it, even consider stealing it. Is thinking about stealing a sin?

Many examples exist as every action is proceeded by a thought. When does a though cross from a thought to a sin? :idunno:

 

[glassjester]

This is a very interesting question because it has far reaching implications. It establishes an entirely new way of determining sin.

Yes! It's part of what made the Sermon on the Mount so revolutionary, and (in my opinion) beautiful.

It's the difference between legalistic ethics (which doesn't work), and virtue ethics.

The law is all about changing behavior. Virtue is all about changing the person. This is what God wants. He doesn't want your good behavior. He wants YOU.

It's an incredibly beautiful, Christian concept.

If you are angry and think about killing the person you are angry with, you are guilty of murder. Is thinking about murder a sin?

Yes.

You see a really nice car and you want it so bad you can taste it, even consider stealing it. Is thinking about stealing a sin?

Yes again.

"Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods." (Catholic Catechism)

Many examples exist as every action is proceeded by a thought. When does a though cross from a thought to a sin? :idunno:

Which is why, as humans, we're not qualified to judge.

 

[Sancocho]

This is a very interesting question because it has far reaching implications. It establishes an entirely new way of determining sin. Under the Law of the Profits, sin was defined by an act. When Jesus said that even looking at a woman with lust in your heart made you guilty of adultery sin is no longer an act, it is a thought.

If you are angry and think about killing the person you are angry with, you are guilty of murder. Is thinking about murder a sin?

You see a really nice car and you want it so bad you can taste it, even consider stealing it. Is thinking about stealing a sin?

Many examples exist as every action is proceeded by a thought. When does a though cross from a thought to a sin? :idunno:

Being tempted is not a sin. Embracing sin is another thing all together.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So I can cheat on my wife with an unmarried woman and I'm not guilty of adultery.

Yes, you would be guilty of fornication, but not guilty of adultery.

Good to know.

Not really.
You may want to see what the Torah or Paul says about that kind of fornication.

The Torah law does not hold the death penalty for that kind of fornication, unlike the penalty for adultery.

Exodus 22:16-17 16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.​

But, with what Paul says, it is better to avoid fornication altogether.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

 

[CabinetMaker]

Being tempted is not a sin. Embracing sin is another thing all together.

Look at what Jesus said about looking at a woman with lust. Where do you cross the line from temptation to sin if just thinking about something is a sin?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Yes, you would be guilty of fornication, but not guilty of adultery.


Not really.
You may want to see what the Torah or Paul says about that kind of fornication.

The Torah law does not hold the death penalty for that kind of fornication, unlike the penalty for adultery.

Exodus 22:16-17 16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.​

But, with what Paul says, it is better to avoid fornication altogether.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

You honestly believe that only a woman can be guilty of adultery? Unbelievable.

 

[glassjester]

Being tempted is not a sin. Embracing sin is another thing all together.

Definitely!

A thought can sort of appear involuntarily - but to persist in that thought, as you said - to embrace the thought - that's where sin lies.

 

[genuineoriginal]

:doh: You are the adulterer if she isn't married, you still are.

Not according to the Bible.

According to the Bible, adultery is a man (married or unmarried) having sex with a woman that is another man's wife.

Also according to the Bible, you are not to add to or take away from the commandments.

Since the commandment prohibiting adultery is in two of the big ten, it is best to understand it with the meaning it had when it was written.

Exodus 20:14,17 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. . . . 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.​