ECT Sanctification, the cost that must paid.

[Cross Reference]

Faith is proved with confessing.

Is that how Abraham proved his faith, David, Mary? By confession?? Is that how the children of Israel proved their faith? Fact is, you don't have a clue.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I wonder why Abraham's faith had to be proven?

Why do you refuse to deal with this verse which I quoted?:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

Can you not see that it is "faith" which results in "life"?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Does not Sanctification mean the "impartation" of the holy qualities of Jesus Christ __ no imitation here but the real thing? And this must not be confused with believing that His holy qualities are "imputed"; a free gift without a cost that must be paid by us who claim His Name unto salvation. OMT: Is it not that we should make that our endeavor this side of glory? Did not Jesus say for those who wanted to be His disciples to, count the cost?

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).​

That is why believers are called "saints":

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God" (Eph.2:19).​

 

[Cross Reference]

Why do you refuse to deal with this verse which I quoted?:

Why don't you answer the question?? Fact is you have no clue -- either.

<back on ignore>

 

[revpete]

So what. Paul says otherwise.



And I know they are not because of what they say.

I am Christian. Evolution is how we came about. It is ok and not immoral to be a homo. The earth is billions of years old. Socialism is what God wants.

You get the idea. By the way, those that say those things always reject the gospel when you dig just a little bit.



You are not regard the flesh. Not even the earthly ministry to Israel, aka the red letters. The Lord Jesus Christ preached after his resurrection. That should be your concern.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.

Romans 7

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Paul knew he was wrong, every day. Paul knew he transgressed God. The law proved it to him. That is the purpose of the law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

If you honestly measure yourself against the 10 commandments, you will find yourself guilty.

You have clearly never dealt with an angel of light because they would never say such obvious falsehood. A genuine Christian will of course confess Christ and His teaching and agree with the Divine inspiration of scripture (the autographs). My point is that words come easy, as James teaches that faith without the accompanying lifestyle (works) is not a genuine faith at all, just an empty confession.

Why did you mention The Ten Commandments because I never did?

Pete

 

[Cross Reference]

You have clearly never dealt with an angel of light because they would never say such obvious falsehood. A genuine Christian will of course confess Christ and His teaching and agree with the Divine inspiration of scripture (the autographs). My point is that words come easy, as James teaches that faith without the accompanying lifestyle (works) is not a genuine faith at all, just an empty confession.

Why did you mention The Ten Commandments because I never did?

Pete

Spot on!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why don't you answer the question?? Fact is you have no clue -- either.

I quoted a verse that demonstrates that "faith" results in "life" and all you have done is run away from that verse as fast as you can. You prove over and over that you refuse to believe any verse which contradict your silly ideas!

 

[Cross Reference]

I quoted a verse that demonstrates that "faith" results in "life" and all you have done is run away from that verse as fast as you can. You prove over and over that you refuse to believe any verse which contradict your silly ideas!

Just answer the question and stop abusing scripture..

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).​

That is why believers are called "saints":

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God" (Eph.2:19).​

Hagaizomenous: "are being sanctified" in Hebrews 10:14 ESV properly illustrates the process in which God regenerates a sinner by His Spirit and their submission.

"Now that you have been set free from sin and have become a slave to God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification, and it's end eternal life." Romans 6:22

With surrender its not about the effort, although undoubtedly it is an effort, it's about what you surrender to and allowing God to work in you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hagaizomenous: "are being sanctified" in Hebrews 10:14 ESV properly illustrates the process in which God regenerates a sinner by His Spirit and their submission.

"Now that you have been set free from sin and have become a slave to God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification, and it's end eternal life." Romans 6:22

With surrender its not about the effort, although undoubtedly it is an effort, it's about what you surrender to and allowing God to work in you.

The Greek word translated "them that are sanctified" is in the "passive" voice:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).

Here is the meaning of the passive voice:

"The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, 'The boy was hit by the ball,' the boy receives the action" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

So you are in error when you assert that the word "sanctified" at Hebrews 10:14 refers to this:

it's about what you surrender to and allowing God to work in you.

That does not speak of being passive.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Just answer the question and stop abusing scripture..

I am not abusing this verse. Instead, it is you who refuses to believe it:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).

You just refuse to believe what John says here, that "believing" results in "life."

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The Greek word translated "them that are sanctified" is in the "passive" voice:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).

Here is the meaning of the passive voice:

"The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. E.g., in the sentence, 'The boy was hit by the ball,' the boy receives the action" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

So you are in error when you assert that the word "sanctified" at Hebrews 10:14 refers to this:



That does not speak of being passive.

Ok, that does not answer Romans 6:22 Which clearly shows the process. Hebrews also shows the submission needed to God.

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation judgement and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." Hebrews 10:26-27

"For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown to His name in the serving of the saints, as you still do. And we desire that each one of you to show the same earnestness, to the full assurance of hope to the end." Hebrews 6:10-11

Why is everyone so afraid to tell people to surrender to God and His Spirit? You guys are playing into the enemies hands.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I am not abusing this verse. Instead, it is you who refuses to believe it:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).

You just refuse to believe what John says here, that "believing" results in "life."

Jerry you know pisteuo, means trust.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Ok, that does not answer Romans 6:22 Which clearly shows the process. Hebrews also shows the submission needed to God.]

The subject which I quoted is Hebrews 10:14 but you refuse to address the meaning of that verse.

Why is that?

Jerry you know pisteuo, means trust.

The primary meaning of pisteuo is "to believe" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

And that is exactly how the Greek word pisteous in translated:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing (pisteous) ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The subject which I quoted is Hebrews 10:14 but you refuse to address the meaning of that verse.

Why is that?



The primary meaning of pisteuo is "to believe" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

And that is exactly how the Greek word pisteous in translated:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing (pisteous) ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

Going with your translation of 'are sanctified' and not 'are being sanctified'. Those that 'are sanctified' must surrender to God and become 'slaves to God', not ' go on sinning deliberately', and 'show love to His name' with 'the same earnestness for the full assurance of hope until the end'. Again any teaching against this is heresy and the work Satan.

www.biblestudytools..com/.../greek/.../pisteu...

And others show the meaning to imply trust. As well as a host of other scripture that corroborate that trust is needed. You know believing like the demons do without surrender to Him does nothing good for anyone.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Going with your translation of 'are sanctified' and not 'are being sanctified'.

You just refuse to believe what this verse says because of your preconceived ideas:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

The Greek verb translated "he hath perfected" is in the "perfect" tense:

"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

Being "perfected forever" refers to our complete identification with the Lord Jesus, where our lives are "hid with Christ in God":

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" (Col.3:1-3).​

In this case the meaning of the Greek word translated "sanctified" at Hebrews 10:14 is "to separate from profane things and dedicate to God" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

That happens when believers are baptized into Christ Jesus, the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13):

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

This is in regard to a Christian's "standing" before God. The "sanctification" of which you make reference is in regard to the Christian's "walk" while he is on the earth.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

8

You just refuse to believe what this verse says because of your preconceived ideas:

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

The Greek verb translated "he hath perfected" is in the "perfect" tense:

"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

Being "perfected forever" refers to our complete identification with the Lord Jesus, where our lives are "hid with Christ in God":

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" (Col.3:1-3).​

In this case the meaning of the Greek word translated "sanctified" at Hebrews 10:14 is "to separate from profane things and dedicate to God" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

That happens when believers are baptized into Christ Jesus, the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13):

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

This is in regard to a Christian's "standing" before God. The "sanctification" of which you make reference is in regard to the Christian's "walk" while he is on the earth.

The walk demonstrates the standing. The standing in Colossians 3:1-3 is shown in us by Colossians 3:9-10 "...seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The walk demonstrates the standing.

I love how you IGNORE the facts that I gave you.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

The Greek verb translated "he hath perfected" is in the "perfect" tense:

"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

The Christian has been "perfected FOREVER," and that refers to our standing. If our "walk" demonstrates our "standing" then it could never be said that one's "standing" is that of being perfected forever.

That is because in our "walk" we all sin (1 John 1:9) and once a Christian sins then he can not be described as being "perfected forever."

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I love how you IGNORE the facts that I gave you.

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:14).​

The Greek verb translated "he hath perfected" is in the "perfect" tense:

"The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated" (The Blue Letter Bible).​

The Christian has been "perfected FOREVER," and that refers to our standing. If our "walk" demonstrates our "standing" then it could never be said that one's "standing" is that of being perfected forever.

That is because in our "walk" we all sin (1 John 1:9) and once a Christian sins then he can not be described as being "perfected forever."

That's why the perfect forever standing is rightly interpreted to the walk being those that are being sanctified as the ESV states.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Further Jerry, are you pressing onto perfection as Paul States in Philippians 3, being transformed from Glory to Glory by God, or are you deliberately sinning, because you think there is nothing that can be done about sin, discounting the power, and fruit of God in the life of those connected to Christ? You mentioned 1 John. Great! If you sin confess, but don't be deceived ' those that hate are in darkness' (1 John).